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Leo Varadkar resigns as Taoiseach

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,649 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    I'd say some are watching the polling to see if they get a bounce out of Varadkar going and Harris coming in, if that bounce doesn't happen then a few more of the older members may be thinking of not running. We have it bad with some of the ministers in place and it could get worse if Neale Richmond is made a senior minister. I'd say he is licking his chops that his bessie mate Simon will make him a Senior minister



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,428 ✭✭✭NSAman


    They said politicians have enabled me and others to create wealth due to what politicians have done. That is utter bull.

    oh I get the wealth redistribution, I think we ALL get redistribution, but wealth creation HAS to be encouraged for the benefit of all. Current politicians seem to think wealth just appears magically. They have done nothing to encourage people to create wealth for themselves and society. They have destroyed the small business sector, favouring multi-national investment. It’ll all end in tears.



  • Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭tarvis


    That’s a change he cannot make. It’s a Green decision.



  • Posts: 0 Kaden Hot Shelter


    Very Uncomfortable is our Leo



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,453 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    I see your point, but realistically, how many independents will stand?

    People can't vote for ideologies, they can only vote for candidates.

    I dont see enough independents standing to make a huge difference.

    The 3 major parties will still win the most seats. There would need to be a lot of indies standing to displace one of the 3 majors.

    Of the 3 majors, FFG are most closely tied, so they can pull in a band of indies or the Soc Dems to form the govt.

    The recent Referendum was confusing to a lot of people and even more folks just didnt care.

    So I wouldnt put too much meaning on the result, in context with a GE.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭Cyclonius


    To some, sure. To others, the appeal of independents is that they are not from party A, B or C. This party was explicitly set up with the aim of giving voters that traditionally voted FF or FG someone else to vote for. As noted by Kaiser, many of the candidates that have joined so far are former FF or FG activists or politicians. That's the case in my constituency, and in a few others I've checked. Given sufficient numbers, they could be useful as a coalition partner for a future government, where their aims of more rural spending, and cuts to quango spending to fund it, would be popular to large chunks of the population.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,261 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    The same class of people who whine about their grown ass kids living under their feet object to new developments because bUt My pRoPerTy vALuE.



  • Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭Cyclonius


    The thing is that many of them have been members of other political parties previously. Some would have walked away from parties over issues (local hospitals, etc.), while others may be a bit more opportunistic in jumping. I can certainly see where you're coming from in terms of governance, but a similar argument could be made for many government backbenchers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,471 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


  • Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭Lofidelity


    Watching the news showing clips of Leo as a young politician and he was a totally different person to who he became. He actually did think about those that get up early for work.

    That enthusiasm is long gone and he seems to become fully integrated and institutionalised into the political and civil service machine.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,471 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    The lad was worn down by the media, both mainstream and social, nothing surer.

    Great to see RTE trying to get in as many kicks as they can before he goes, and divert attention from their own shïtstorm.

    Thems the facts as I see them.

    ThTs how she rolls.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,888 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    They would be a disaster in government. Public transport projects would be cancelled so as to put more money into the mica scheme to build houses in the middle of nowhere. Hospitals dotted around the country with jack-of-all-trades doctors instead of specialised centres with expert care leading to a downward trend in health outcomes. Cutting carbon taxes and excise duty so all the rural hicks can pollute the countryside, while putting a police station in every village leaving the cities to become crime centres.

    I could go on and on, but everything they would do would be awful.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    Government backbenchers' (which is most of them) primary function in government is to do exactly what the whips tell them. i.e. vote the right way



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    For Independents: they should take their hyper-localised 'issues' off to the county councils, where they belong. They are a hindrance to effective government (which we all claim to want).



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,720 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    Nonsense, the media largely did his bidding.

    How much did Varadkar spend on spin doctors, and PR in his term of office, it was 1.6m in 2018 alone, a 4000% increase on his predecessor Enda Kienny the previous year.

    Varadkar was all spin but no substance.



  • Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭Cyclonius


    Ireland's use of the whip system is much greater than other Westminister systems, though, with the amount of voting along party lines being very much an outlier when compared to other states that use the model, including the UK. In terms of actual quality of governance, an argument could be made that having the whip force backbenchers to ram through whatever half baked legislation the cabinet wants doesn't necessarily result in high quality governance either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,235 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    The scandal was in plain sight. They were caught out using the constitution as a campaigning tool ahead of calling an election in the summer and it backfired catastrophically!

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,780 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    When you ask anyone throwing around the Quango term to identify what spending they can cut; it never gets beyond maybe 10m of random groups they dislike, though. It'll always be the NWCI, MASI etc etc.

    The bulk of what gets spent through quangos is stuff that should be on the Health or Education spends, and by pushing it through an allegedly "voluntary body", the State gets some level of shielding from the consequences of their actions. Take that funding off the Quango and it goes on to the HSE or DoE budget, and not a cent is saved.

    So its not something that would get any consideration in coalition or confidence and supply negotiations and wouldn't give something for them to claim as a 'win'.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,199 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Eh.. there is life outside Dublin you know. Our nearest decent hospital for example is now 50 miles away, you'd be hard put to find a Garda station open, f**k all public transport... regional tourism badly damaged and ignored.

    We get a good run into the next GE and we'll see lots of Independents running. And I and many others will only be voting for them.

    Which is why from a political tactical POV, Fianna Fáil should put the boot in now and pull out forcing a quick election. They have a chance but doesn't look like they've the balls to do it. Unless they are waiting until Harris's coronation is done and then pull out, leaving him floundering.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Our nearest decent hospital for example is now 50 miles away

    I suspect your nearest decent hospital has always been 50 miles away.

    Regional public transport is objectively better than it was 5/10 years ago.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭Cyclonius


    In terms of where cuts could be made, the government's spending data website is useful in allowing you to drill into the various types of government expenditure. Some are still amalgamated, but it gives you a rough idea of where the money is going.

    For 2024, total projected government expenditure is €110.1 billion, compared with €77.0 billion in 2019 and €70.5 billion in 2014. The 'additional departments' category has seen expenditure increase from €7.4 billion in 2019 (excluding housing which is listed as one of the main categories of spending in 2024) to €22.8 billion in 2024. The Department of Children and Youth Affairs had a budget of €1.52 billion in 2019, while its expanded version, the Department of Children, Equality,Disability, Integration and Youth has a projected expenditure of €7.44 billion this year. Even allowing for the costs associated with free child care and accommodation of asylum seekers, such an increase (likely provided to give the Green Party another substantial portfolio in government) so quickly would likely mean a significant amount of taxpayers money is being spent poorly, not getting value for money.

    In terms of education, which you mention, it should be another candidate for analysis by a future government (one of many); though the headline rate of expenditure is €10.9 billion for both years, the 2024 figure doesn't include the additional €4.26 billion of expenditure by the newly created Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science for the year. Don't get me wrong, education was underfunded for years, but an almost 40% increase in expenditure in 5 years suggests just chucking money at the area, which has not proven to be too successful a policy in Ireland in the past.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    And what policies will these Independents implement for you?



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,780 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    A party that has "cut quango spending" as a policy is never going to be able to coherently come up with suggestions for actual cuts, though. That's my point.

    Its a fundamental misunderstanding from the off.



  • Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭Cyclonius


    If someone is having a heart attack, to give one example, a mediocre hospital 5 miles away might prove a lot more useful than a good hospital 50 miles away, as many families, including my own, have seen. Specialist hospitals are useful, but a lack of adequate medical facilities in a local community places lives at risk.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,220 ✭✭✭HalloweenJack



    A handful of independents can be useful as they can be bought and sold when support is needed. Of course, they can also hold governments to ransom but they do play an important role in getting investment for forgotten areas (Gregory, the Healy-Raes).

    However, a large number of glorified county councillors is not going to help national governance. Their inherent selfish, transactional nature means they'll always be looking for a deal. In an already splintered government, having a large number outside the whip who can change their mind from vote to vote is not going to lead to a stable government that can make big plans and work on big issues.

    A too high number of independents leads to a weaker government, imo, and increases the likelihood that the next government won't make it to the end of the term. It dilutes the role of governance and just leads to money grabs for vanity projects in their own constituencies.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Firstly, having a hospital that close to most of the population is impossible given our density and secondly, no they quite frequently would not be better off going to the mediocre hospital a few miles away. Regional EDs that were shut down for example had significantly higher mortality rates from incidences such as heart attacks.

    This is the kind of thing that local independent politicians just don't care about though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,780 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    If you go to a small hospital with a heart attack, you die. Ditto a stroke, or anything else complicated.

    We still have too many emergency departments for a country of this size; but no party is going to propose closing more.



  • Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭Cyclonius


    When my cousin had his heart attack last year, he would not have made it to a hospital 50 miles away. He was lucky, as the medical staff told him, that he was as close to the local hospital as he was.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭howiya


    The real problem is that we don't have enough hospital beds for a country of this size which has created a poor perception of the centres of excellence and calls for some of the facilities that were rolled into bigger hospitals to remain open/have increased service delivery etc.

    Ireland 2.9 beds per 1000 whilst the EU average is 5.

    Look at the shitshow in the midwest. Is it any wonder people don't want to have to go to UHL



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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,780 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The outcome would have been the same had it been one of the tiny local EDs we had in the past.



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