Waterford University discussion

The whole idea that there ever will be a standalone university in Waterford is complete fantasy now. We had our chance in the mid-2000s when it was close but again politics got in the way. A standalone university in Waterford will never be a political priority no matter who is in government (David Cullinane hasbought in the regional TU idea as it suits the Sinn Fein political agenda).

And even if there was powerful Waterford TD in the cabinet with a top-level portfolio who wanted to push the stand-alone Waterford university there would be massive opposition from the existing university sector which would block any moves to make it happen. So the TU is the best we will ever get

Thats fair but it's very difficult fight for it when we have no weapons that can make a difference on national politics and the status quo. Its galling to see Wexford councillors complaining that there is no campus plan for Wexford 6 months after they completed the dubious CPO for a site. WIT had no investment for 20 years and there is still a vacant site on campus for a building that was meant to be built 15 years ago.

With the planning permission running out in August and no sign of any movement on the building that means it will be pushed back another few years as they will have to start the planning process again. We can't even force the government to invest in a building they have announced multiple times and has planning permission with a ready to go site so you can forget about a standalone university.

I agree it's hard to keep up the fight when the fight looks impossible. That said pressure has to be kept on our local representatives, in the interim we need to see any major investment in SETU land in Waterford and massively increase our student numbers here.

As Ireland's population grows some day a new stand alone University will need to be created and we need to ensure waterford is the best place for that.

The only way to do that is to ensure Waterford campus progresses so much that it becomes undeniable logical sense for Waterford to seperate from SETU and become a stand alone University.

Whether that is allowed to happen or not is another thing, at the end of the day all we have here is a TU campus whereas Cork, Limerick and Galway all have two institutions, stand alone Unis and TU campuses and that is what we need to strive to have in Waterford.

It's a no brainer to have a university in the SE and Waterford's the obvious location.

The population of Waterford, Carlow, Wexford and Kilkenny is 470,000. So it'll be 500,000 by 2030.

Proximity to education is important for people from low income backgrounds and people with disabilities and also mature students, mothers etc.

The only other gap in Ireland would be the midlands and the NW I guess.

I think Waterford's proximity to Cork and Dublin maybe went against it as a location.

That's it in a nutshell. Had the light bulb moment about a decade ago discussing Waterford City vis-a-vis Galway with a business associate based in Galway and he said " you know yer problem is you're stuck between Dublin and Galway" Of course he wasn't aware of the additional **** we have to deal with from our Southeastern brethren!

Limerick is 1 hr from Cork and 1 hr from Galway, with a smaller hinterland than the SE. There was no impediment to the development of their university and RTC/IoT/TU. Maynooth is a better example- DCU, UCD, DIT and Trinity are all in spitting distance (~20 miles), and Maynooth made a full university in 1997 (from a 2,000-person seminary college, around 1/3 the size of WRTC/WIT at the time).

My tinpot thesis is that SE was economically countercyclical to the rest of Ireland- so while Cork/Limerick/Dublin were going through 7 types of hell in the 1980s, the comfortable classes in the SE were relatively okay. As a result, they did not perceive the need to remake the economy from ag/industry 1950s to the knowledge economy of the 1990s. This was reflected in bozo politics where we had a load of politicians in the SE arguing against a university— in Waterford Austin/John Deasy were prime examples of this, but Hogan, Howlin were powerful later on. Both Limerick and Cork perceived the university as an existential issue to renewing the city after the 1980s, and every pol in those parishes had a laser focus on university investment. Clear the last generation of pols in the SE did not get the memo, and are still ambivalent on the issue.

I have stuck my head above the parapet on this issue again.....

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2024/03/18/government-is-failing-technological-universities-can-they-be-saved/

No doubt the 9% reduction will be sold as COVID issues but with stand alone Unis up 4% that doesn't wash.

Would be interesting to see student numbers per campus over recent years

I would not believe Simon Harris if he told me it was raining outside. Similarly with Stephen Donnelly.

Third level education in the south east stands on a knife edge. It may not survive at its current level. The piece by Dr. Ray Griffin of SETU Waterford in the Irish Times today was utterly devastating.

If Harris gets the gig, we are in for a tough time.

Thought exactly the same myself...as did everyone else in Waterford.

They will use this now as an election gift. You couldn’t make it up. Over a decade late with planning permission almost expired. Projects in Dublin/Cork fast tracked over this. Voters need to hold these failures to account!

Anyone listen today? I didn't get a chance but doubting anything was said as social media seems quiet on the matter

If you review the discussion in this thread spanning the past few years, you'll find numerous posts expressing scepticism about the TU process and concerns that it might merely result in a rebranding without additional funding. Additionally, it has been pointed out multiple times that the merger could exacerbate issues rather than improve the situation for WIT and ITcarlow .There has always been concerns that the merged entity would underperform compared to the existing individual organizations. Now, it appears that all those predictions have sadly come true, which is predictably depressing

https://www.thejournal.ie/technological-universities-ireland-6339931-Apr2024/

We needed a university in Waterford to serve the south east and were almost there. Our neighbours would not support something sensible. Stupid politics has blown everything sky high. Mergers with WIT and Carlow IT, expansion to Wexford and Wicklow and later possibly to Kilkenny. Fine Gael politics have made a balls of things. A mess.

We can't get funding for the existing organisation so the idea that they will build a new university anywhere in the southeast is a fantasy. Add to this the existing universities will completely oppose any new university as they have for the last 30 years and there is no political will or political power in Waterford to even start that process

Interestingly Covney put a stop to the boundary extension as at the time he had his sights on the leadership of FG and would have lost the KK support it it proceeded.

Covney is now also stepping down. Can can you fight that issue or hold him accountable?

He put personal gains ahead of economical gains, and now he's done, no harm done eh!

The sooner FG are eradicate from Waterford the better.

I wouldn't be surprised if UL get it and one or two TU's but the TU's won't be full on vet school.

Do X time in TUs and complete the rest in UL or something like that.

Fairly grim listening to this, just proving a lot of our concerns and thoughts are playing out.

https://www.wlrfm.com/podcasts/deise-today/ray-griffin-setu-deise-354991

The new Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science- Patrick O'Donovan was on WLR this morning, a little after 10am for the keen.

A significant interview because DT opened the university discussion by asking about the 2011 FG promise for a full university, first time I have heard a senior FG person asked about it. O'Donovan batted it away, first day in the Dept., has not been briefed. DT countered a little while later by reminding the Minister it was not a Govt promise, rahter was rather a FG election promise.

At some stage, I hope the media pressure brings Govt to address the issue. The zilch track record is there for all to see- new buildings (5 at stage gate 2, PPP), new disciplines (vet/pharmacy/teacher training), new lecturer contract incl. professoriate, student accommodation and borrowing framework. Hopefully this Minister will address the TU with some positive action.

Without the new engineering building starting John Cummin is toast.

Everything, across the whole city in third level education, hospital, IDA jobs etc all delayed or never come at all to an almost unbelieveable extent. I just dont get it. When you read that its nearly two decades since anything new was built at WIT, you find yourself saying, "this cannot be true". But it is. Why for fk sake?

As you say, by this stage John Cummins doesn't even understand why things are so difficult here.