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General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,348 ✭✭✭NITRO95


    There has to be bias if you disagree with whatever their story is



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,977 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I don't like to give English lessons but....

    Bias is to be unfairly or prejudicially opposed to something or someone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,304 ✭✭✭Widdensushi


    The shame of being a man city fan that you won't admit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,977 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I've never heard of a fan who says they aren't a fan.

    My team is Athletic club. I like Blackburn Rovers.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,423 Mod ✭✭✭✭DM_7


    Mod: Cut the bickering and stick to posting about the thread title. If you are not discussing the thread topic or debating a point actually made do not post.

    Previous note:

    Mod Note: 27/06/23 - this is a General Thread to discuss the Premier League.

    If you support a Premier League team you should be aware you are likely to read posts that are not always complimentary about the team you like. You are welcome to make counter points but you are not welcome to make comments about posters or fans of a club in response to points you don't like. Posters doing so will receive forum cards and or thread bans.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,378 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm



    Tonali charged by the English FA now for gambling offences after he joined Newcastle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,090 ✭✭✭✭Fitz*


    Is that transfer a big black mark against Dan Ashworth's time at Newcastle, for failing to undertake a complete character assessment on Tonali before signing him for such big money?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,977 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Clearly he has addiction issues. If he went for treatment for his issues between now and August then he should be given a suspended ban.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,669 ✭✭✭adaminho


    He had to do a mandatory course as part of his plea deal with the Italian FA. Hopefully this is taken into account in his English case and they apply a time served ban. It's a horrible disease I wouldn't wish on anyone!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,378 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    I would say he deserves another ban. But I'd be putting a lot of the blame on Newcastle this time, if they did their homework on him correctly then they would have discovered his addiction and could have put things in place to help him from the minute they signed him. it's as much a failing on their part as on his.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,739 ✭✭✭giveitholly


    This yellow card that Tonali got in injury time definitely looks dodgy looking back at it. Fingers crossed he can get the help he needs and overcome this,but whoever in Newcastle did not do background checks on him probably has a lot to answer to the owners.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,977 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    The problem with gambling addiction is it's very easy to hide unlike drugs or alcohol. And it's not only that you look perfect but you can also make a decision after a bad day that you are quitting and believe you will stick to it and if you believe it then others will too. This is why a gambler can lose everything very quickly.

    Its a terrible problem because it's not identifiable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭YTM


    Colleague at work was a massive gambling addict and none of us knew about it. Even those that worked close with him until the **** hit the fan when his partner kicked him out after he gambled away all the money they had saved up for a wedding and deposit for a house.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,560 ✭✭✭✭CSF


    I don’t know if you can have rules against gambling that you push aside for gambling addiction though. You kind of either have them or you don’t.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,977 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I think if it's very clear that somebody has an addiction that it's a big mitigating factor.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Addiction or no addiction, there needs to be consequences if he's guilty.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,560 ✭✭✭✭CSF


    But things like recreational drugs (depending on the one we’re talking about obviously) and gambling are intrinsically linked with addiction.


    You can borderline guarantee that someone who is willing to risk their multimillion career by doing these things, is either addicted or on the way towards addiction. It doesn’t make sense to only impose the punishment to the lads who haven’t quite hit full addiction levels yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,977 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    There are some who don't have any addiction issues and are betting or being paid to make sure certain events happen in a game. The reason for the rules is to try and prevent that from happening.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,560 ✭✭✭✭CSF


    If you’ve seen the video of Tonali’s yellow card against Villa, you may start to suspect that this case will go in that direction.


    But again, that kind of desperate behaviour goes hand in hand with someone suffering with an addiction.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Trouble is the FA and Premier League dont help themselves by allowing clubs to have betting companies as sponsors. Not to mention the fact that you can't watch a match on any channel nowadays without multiple ads before, during and after games.

    The only place they should be shown is inside a betting shop. No need for the whole world to see it, imo anyways. If you want to gamble fine you know where to go to do so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,348 ✭✭✭NITRO95


    I'm sure all the calls for Ashworth to be looked at for his involvement in signing Tonali have absolutely nothing to do with him potentially working for MUFC.

    I have a tonne of sympathy for Tonali. Any kind of addiction is horrible and I wouldn't wish it on anyone even an opposition player. He should get another ban and it will be deserved but more than that I hope he gets the help he needs



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,090 ✭✭✭✭Fitz*


    Yeah the FA & PL should be looking at themselves here at the same time. Maybe even first. They are actively contributing towards the image of gambling within football.

    I know that there will be a new ruling enforced where clubs cannot have a betting company sponsor the club shirts, but that doesn't kick in until the start of the 2026/2027 season. You would automatically assume that the reason why this is, is to allow the clubs honour their existing deals that would have been signed before the agreement to remove the betting sponsors, and give the clubs time to find new deals to use after.

    But they have allowed clubs (like Aston Villa) to sign new sponsorship deals with betting companies after this ruling as long as the deal finishes up before 2026/2027. This is not helping things, but obviously the clubs are not playing ball there too. The proactive thing would be to just ban any club from signing new deals with betting companies, and let the existing deals filter out, before a complete ban starting in 2026/2027.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,024 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    Yeah, any punishment has to have a solid rehabilitation plan baked into it. Being taken away from the game for a period is probably not a bad thing for someone trying to recover anyway.

    From the FA's point of view, I understand the need to punish all instances though - like, gambling is not illegal for players. They're actually fully allowed to gamble on a million different things - just not on football. That distinction probably mitigates against the defence of addiction a bit - it's quite a callous perspective, but just looking at the FAs position, it adds specificity to the rule that's been broken that makes it easier to have a hard and fast "dont do this thing", where they can then make a more specific decision on punishment afterwards based on the circumstances.

    Really hope he is provided with the type of help he needs to get past it - not just in the short term, but that they have a long term independent strategy of support to help with any slips. It's such a hard thing to go through. He's young though, so in a way it's great that it was caught early, and can hopefully put it behind him with help.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,977 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I fully agree, at the very least there should be a watershed for those ads. It's totally wrong that they are on during the day when kids are watching.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,024 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    It's insane alright, it's near total saturation.

    It's horrible here in the US to see it increasing exponentially year by year too. A few more years, and they'll have lobbied the regulations to be as loose as the UKs



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 693 ✭✭✭The Moist Buddha


    id rather be an alcoholic or druggie than a gambler, you could knock a days craic out of €100 on the pints but it wouldn't last you in a bookies, thankfully i can do all 3 without any problems



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You are looking at it from your perspective, as someone who doesn't have an addiction issue.

    If you're an alcoholic/drug addict you're not having much craic in life. The complete opposite.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 693 ✭✭✭The Moist Buddha


    yeah i understand that, sorry i didn't word it right in my post 🤦‍♂️gambling is a terrible terrible addiction. has no place in advertisement or sponsorship the same as cigarettes and alcohol



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Unfortunately the money the gambling firms are throwing at media organisations or football clubs is too much to resist.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,664 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    If it's intentional, then he's veered away from gambling addiction and into match-fixing, which is a whole new charge and probbaly a lot more serious.

    You can gamble without match fixing and you can fix matches/incidents as a player without gambling.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,560 ✭✭✭✭CSF


    Of course they're different offences and charges. The point was more that if a very rich man is descending into that kind of behaviour, then its probably even more sign of a crippling gambling addiction (the same thing that was being discussed as a mitigant for charges)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,664 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Yeah, i know; but mitigating factors against addiction may well be taking into account, mitigating factors into match-fixing would not, if he was convited of it.

    At that point he'd even be commiting fraud.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,560 ✭✭✭✭CSF


    I’m fairly sure addiction would be considered as a mitigant in any case involved in something that was done to fund it. This is basically my point on how murky it all is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,881 ✭✭✭✭klose


    Stones and Walker both out on Sunday, big boost for Arsenal that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,090 ✭✭✭✭Fitz*


    Arsenal have had a great year when it comes to number of injuries they have had themselves relative to other clubs, but also in terms of playing their title rivals while they were missing key players.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,977 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    It hurts but it'd be a bigger disaster for other clubs.

    Like they still have options like a back three with Akanji, Dias and Ake or a back four with the three above and Gvardiol. I can see Bernardo Silva playing deep in midfield or alternatively Kovacic coming in.

    Like you've got Rico Lewis for wing back and Gvardiol on the other side if you go back three. I won't even talk about further upfield bar the Kovacic mention above.

    Ridiculous squad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    Just heard Rodri hasn't lost for Man City in 58 games and city lost all 4 games he missed this year. If I was Arsenal I'd be figuring out a way to give him food poisoning.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,669 ✭✭✭adaminho




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Arsenal need more than food poisoning for this one. Going by recent seasons, they'll crumble when the pressure is on.

    City will destroy them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,560 ✭✭✭✭CSF


    This is harsh considering this seasons Arsenal team have taken 7 points out of 9 from the Liverpool/City games so far



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    True, but let's see how they handle the run in. Those 7 points are worthless if they can't win the title.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,090 ✭✭✭✭Fitz*


    As mentioned above, those games were playing against Liverpool who had a lot of injuries and then one of those games where Rodri was missing. Sunday is a new challenge for Arsenal this season - playing Man City when both Rodri & KDB will be available.

    That said, if Arsenal can get someone running at the sides of Rodri with pace, they can get some joy as the recovery pace of Walker will be missing, as well as the defensive head of Stones in the same areas. Rodri doesn't tend to deal with pace too well, and if he is bypassed, then the Man City defence is extra exposed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,560 ✭✭✭✭CSF


    Ah come on. Nobody (correctly)is dissecting the games where Arsenal lost (and apparently bottled it), to see if they were also missing players and if people were they’d probably be slaughtering them for being unable to play without player A/B/C



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,090 ✭✭✭✭Fitz*


    A lot of Arsenal fans reckon a major defining factor behind why they didn't win the title last year was because Saliba got injured in the Europa League and missed the run in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,161 ✭✭✭Royale with Cheese


    Well Saliba's replacement was Rob Holding who was sold to Crystal Palace last summer and hasn't managed a single minute for them in the Premier League this season, don't think he's injured either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,560 ✭✭✭✭CSF


    And they may be correct. But that’s still on them. If Stones or Dias get injured it won’t derail City (yes of course the conversation will go on for months about how City built that squad). You can’t be 1 injury away from collapse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,635 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    If only every team could have a bus load of 50 and 60 million centre backs to spare in case of emergency 🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,977 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Its different this year. They have two Premier league winners in the squad which has to be a great help at this time of the season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,378 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    Who Arsenal? They had Jesus and Zinchenko last year as well.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,560 ✭✭✭✭CSF




This discussion has been closed.
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