DART+ (DART Expansion)

the main challenge is IR's complete inability to run trains to schedule. This causes massive problems on a single line section. The trains from Wexford in the morning are often running significantly late by the time they get to Greystones causing knock on effects for the Dart. How they could be consistently late on a line that has no other traffic running on it is baffling (and these are the first couple of trains of the day so they're not affected by any earlier issues). Of course Irish Rail's solution is to just get rid of the complexity and make life more difficult for passengers. I've no problem with them running extra shuttle services from Greystones but the existing Inter-City services, already the slowest in the country, should be maintained.

It's not very clear, but I assume the Wicklow hourly Dart (with BEMU) would be a full Dart service to city centre. I don't think the intention for Rosslare service is two changes. One would have to assume the Wicklow Dart would wait for the Rosslare service to arrive.

I see, I took "a bemu between Wicklow and Greystones" as only being a shuttle service between the two.

I don’t see the big issue, if I’m honest.

Changing trains is already the norm at Limerick Junction.

The issue would be around reservations and baggage, I would assume.

If the DART went hourly from Wicklow, it could just wait for a Rosslare train. And it wouldn’t leave a black hole in the timetable of the regular DART by being a bit delayed.

There would have to be some priority carriages that would allow for luggage space. There would be pricing considerations, I expect.

That luggage requirement could also go away if Waterford to Rosslare is reopened. I believe that these two proposals go hand in hand, although the All Ireland Rail Review makes it sound like Waterford to Rosslare would be secondary to this.

again, for passing loops to work you would need trains to run punctually. Irish Rail can't do this.

The reason they're talking about having passengers change at Wicklow or Greystones, and not Bray, is because the problems are occurring on the Bray-Greystones section. It's quite common for the Greystones Dart to be cancelled at Bray if there is an intercity running very close behind but that then results in the return service from Greystones also being cancelled.

The reference to increase frequency to Greystones in that article is the plan to increase weekday Dart services to every 20 minutes; every 30 minutes is currently the maximum possible. They haven't released the plans for how they're going to do this, but it seems there's going to be a passing section on the Greystones side and improved signalling. This will allow a Dart to leave Greystones before an incoming Dart has a arrived from Bray. However this will only work if trains are running vaguely on time, and InterCity trains coming from Wexford are a wildcard that throws the whole thing out, due to Irish Rail's previously discussed inability to keep to time.

I'd expect if they introduce a change at Wicklow Town, then the Wicklow town services will be fully integrated into the Dart timetable and not just a shuttle, as making people change twice would be ridiculous. But you'd still have the problem that Dart will have to wait for the Intercity to arrive so people can make the connection, so a late running Wexford service would throw out the whole Dart timetable.

Is this not from the All Ireland Rail review, which was made up of a much broader grouping?

I’m trying to figure out why there is such rage here over it. Changing trains is not a big issue.

I agree that there are practicalities of it that Irish Rail could make a mess of, but the proposals seem fairly sensible to me.

Not true. It is in the All Ireland Rail Review, except to Greystones rather than the Wicklow option.

But the reality is that it does share this line and it constrains capacity for both.

I think it should also be pointed out that the Westland Row to Bray line was a commuter one, then Harcourt Street closed.

The problem is that rail is not a better option right now than bus from Rosslare except for comfort. Journey times are not going to significantly improve whilst it shares the DART line.

The focus for improving speed there should be via the Waterford line.

I’m not sure how DART+ is going to make things worse for intercity.

Remains to be seen.

What we do actually know is that those users will see a significant improvement in options. Sligo users will likely be able to get off at Cross Guns and interchange with Metrolink in either direction. A significant improvement in where they can get to quickly in Dublin.

The Rosslare service still takes 45+ minutes from Bray to Connolly, even if it only stops at Dun Laoghaire. It's not ideal having to change train from an intercity, but the line is seriously constrained.

The new proposal would allow significantly higher intercity frequency, at the expense of one change, but little impact on overall journey time. It's seems like a reasonable compromise.

Rosslare/Wexford passengers will be guaranteed a seat on the Dart since it's the first stop.

Sorry!, M11 and N11

Yes but this has been looked at in the All Ireland Rail Review too, and included from Greystones. I am assuming Wicklow was not considered as that wasn’t planned to be on the DART.

It isn’t a NTA specific proposal in a bubble.

I think there might be legitimate criticisms of this proposal but I am miffed at people ascribing malice to this.

To me there is no word of how the Rosslare line can ever see significant speed improvements on the current line, even if Bray - Greystones was “fixed”.

It’s always going to share a line with a commuter service that demands more and more frequency.

Hang on.. Passengers from Dublin to Limerick and Dublin to Tralee are expected to change trains, but the same thing is completely impossible for Rosslare passengers?

Some serious self-overgetting is needed here. The end result of this plan will be higher frequency services on that line in exchange for a single change. Travel time is unlikely to be longer, given that the current train is queing behind DART services anyway. Doing things this way allows each Rosslare-Wicklow train to do a couple of short shuttles between Wicklow and Enniscorthy in peak times before returning to Rosslare: more services without requiring more trains. Mid Wexford is where the passenger demand is coming from.