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In the event of united Ireland could DUP attract a significant vote in the Republic / 26 Counties ?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    No.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Not so sure about that.
    Jeffrey Donaldson got a standing ovation at a FG conference. They could definitely target votes there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    That’s called being polite. Psychopath, Garda killer and domestic abuser Pierce McAuley got a standing ovation at a SF ard fheis. What’s your point?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    My point is obvious. What Jeffrey got the standing ovation for was for what he said. The people there found it acceptable, in other words. If you are giving points of view a standing ovation, how far off are you from giving them a vote?
    Not all that far IMO

    We know SF attract votes btw. That kinda proves the point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,336 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    There is no evidence that the mob that attacked Charlie Bird in the early afternoon in O'Connell St. Dublin (and who called him "an Orange Bastard") were drunk. Certainly not on alcohol anyway, maybe they were drunk on militant Republicanism because they were there to attack the Love Ulster parade too….a planned peaceful parade approved by the Gardai, where the families of victims of paramilitaries could parade in peace and silence.

    There probably were a few DUP supporters among the families of the victims, they got a very hostile welcoming reaction ( full blown riot) when they came to Dublin.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Suckler




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    If you visit the Love Ulster site on the Wayback Machine you will see why tensions were high.
    Willie Frazer was an antagonist and deliberately stoked tensions before the parade.

    Regardless, politicians have continued working for their constituents and this event (almost 20 years ago) is not evidence that the DUP will not continue in politics if there is a UI.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,336 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Nobody said the DUP would not continue in politics if there was a U.I. : read the OPs question again: "In the event of united Ireland could DUP attract a significant vote in the Republic / 26 Counties ?"

    The reason Charlie Bird was attacked - as the hundreds of other people / victims families who planned to take part in the victims parade would have been had the parade proceeded - was perceived to be because they were "Orange bastards", like Charlie Bird.

    You see how dangerous name calling is? In the Dail two FF ministers called innocent protestant FG politician Billy Fox a "B Special" - something they had to apologise for. And do not forget the pIRA murdered poor Fox later and burned his girlfriends family home + bible. And to add further insult to injury, your parties Michelle O'Neill said there was "no alternative".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    And there was two sides to the conflict/war.
    .
    Southern TD's and Taoisigh have shown no fear or problem going north to represent us, even though they were threatened and our Foreign Affairs Minister had to be evacuated because of a live and armed threat to his safety, why would events nearly 20 years ago stop the DUP?
    You are not making any sense. We can all pluck incidents from years ago to just try to deflect.

    Could the DUP attract you to vote for them. Yes or no?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Suckler


    The reason Charlie Bird was attacked - as the hundreds of other people / victims families who planned to take part in the victims parade would have been had the parade proceeded - was perceived to be because they were "Orange bastards", like Charlie Bird.

    Still trying to Milk the Charlie Bird non-related story I see. Have you no shame?



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,037 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Mod: let's move on from Charlie Bird please (and the vermin in Dublin that day)!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,336 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    The difference is the pIRA and other Republicans killed many unionist politicians, like Bradford, Edgar graham, Nieve, Berry,Gow and others.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    SF and the SDLP had politicians killed too by loyalist paramilitaries. There was a conflict/war which is over and a settlement achieved.

    Now can you answer the question?

    Would the DUP be able to attract a vote from you?





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Suckler


    Except there's no difference, Loyalists engaged in the same tactics.

    The attempted murder on Bernadette McAliskey and Michael McAliskey was a typical example of both collusion and indifference to murder of Nationalist Politicians. The UDA (you remember the ones you said were decent people) enabled some of their rabble to target the house whilst the SAS/army were watching the house but let them break in, shoot two people and escape all before they decided to "intervene"……

    Paddy Wilson - UDA/UFF

    John Turnely - UDA/UFF

    Miriam Daly - UDA

    Pat Mcgarry - B-Specials - (Remember they became the UDA/UVF….LVF…RHD etc. etc.)

    Edward Fullerton - UDA

    I think we can dispense with the, clearly, made up and ill-thought argument that atrocities were a one sided affair. But I await some bumbling anecdote to bolster your claim.

    We've covered the collusion before though that you conveniently like to forget/ignore entirely.

    The Murder of Pat Finucane was similar in that your beloved sectarians the UDA/UFF were the perpetrators with assistance from the RUC to ensure it went off without a hitch.

    Rose Nelson was the same; your local UDA carried it out, RUC made sure it happened.

    Post edited by Suckler on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,336 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    You are making up things again. I never said the UDA were decent people. I did not even bother reading the rest of your post when you make up stuff that you claim I said.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,336 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    I condemned the paramilitaries on both sides.

    I asked you to do the same and you would not. When you do, I'll answer your question about who I would vote for given the choice. In the past I have voted for all parties depending on the candidate, so I have voted for FG, labour,FF and independents. I have heard of a unionist standing for election in the 26 counties but afaik he got badly intimidated, as did his family. More than just the usual tyres slashed thing and phone calls in the middle of the night.

    As you would expect when FG's Billy Fox got branded a "b special" ( something he was totally innocent of) by FF ministers, and later killed by the pIRA and his girlfriends family house + bible symbolically burned.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    OK, so all you want to do is talk about the past and indulge in one sided victimhood. Despite being told that all sides lost politicians in the conflict/war you just want to continue portraying one side as the victims, which anyone with a tiny grasp of the history knows isn't the case.

    Not very relevant on a topic discussing the future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Suckler


    I did not even bother reading the rest of your post

    Of course you didn't, otherwise you'd have to admit your were wrong in your assertions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,006 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    Slightly back on topic, would the DUP recognise the Dail and take there seats if they were successful



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    If they haven't learnt by then that trying to stomp their feet gets them into a worse position then maybe it is time for them to fold up the tent and let their MLA's MP's and councilors join more moderate parties like the UUP and Alliance.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,178 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    In a scenario where Ireland unifies, Unionist hardliners will be a minority so I do not think that it actually matters. I think we'll see the likes of the Alliance on the rise which would be a good thing.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I think it will be a huge crunch decision for DUP/TUV people. They are largely made up of the Protestant and Presbyterian faiths and would run the risk of repeating history and what Protestants themselves say happened after independence here. Basically by withdrawing from the functioning of the state they will contribute to their own decline.
    Moderate Unionism under it's present leadership will have few issues with partaking in democratic representative politics.
    Unionists will head for the UUP first and then the Alliance.
    I also think a UI will see a further separation of church and state and the further decline of those main religions anyway. Which is something to maybe look forward to, as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,336 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    I never said only one side was victims. It was me who condemned the paramilitaries on both sides. You never did, as still have not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You tried to make the case that only Unionist politicians had been attacked and killed, and they therefore wouldn't look for votes in a UI (there will be no 'North' or 'South' in that scenario)
    When it was pointed out to you that politicians had been killed and intimidated generally on this island - from all sides- and still continued to represent their electorate you are trying to deflect.
    I'm not going down the victimhood rabbithole.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,336 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Oh, so it was FG protestant politician Billy Fox's fault he was shot by the pIRA, after being called a "B special" by FF ministers in the Dail no less. ( he had no connection to the B-specials, it was an easy jibe because he was protestant). I suppose his girlfriend dererved to get her parents family home burnt as well as their bible, because they withdrew from the functioning of the state. and so on for thousands of other attacks, from the Dunmanway murders to many lesser known crimes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Billy Fox was killed 60 years after independence and long after the decline in Protestant numbers here.
    Protestants themselves have written about the effect their withdrawal from the functioning of the state had. This has been linked to you before.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,037 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Mod: I'm politely asking both Francis and Francie to get a room and do their bickering somewhere else so that others can get a chance to post on the actual topic at hand. This tit-for-tat crap is annoying to everyone else so if you do eventually decide to return to this thread then do not derail it in the slightest as there will be a two week forum ban issued immediately (in the vain hope that this might discourage this annoying thread hijacking).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,539 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Mmm, probably. Even the dimmer among them — and that's setting a pretty low bar, but still — will recognise that SF became much more politically effective when they abandoned their policy of abstention and started to participate in elected institutions.

    It's true that SF still doesn't participate in Westminster, but they would be such a tiny presence there, representing such a marginal position, and it's such an unrepresentative body, that participatin would be wholly ineffective anyway. The same conditions certainly wouldn't apply to unionist representatives in an all-Ireland legislature.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It would be political Hari Kari not to recognise it or not to take part.

    What would they do? People might vote for them once or twice and you'd have the hardcore but they would quickly and understandably disappear from relevance as we get on with a huge amount of infra- structural and constitutional work the new UI would need to be doing.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,437 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    No but other right leaning parties might merge with them or rob their ideas. There was pub talk a few years ago that the SDLP would merge with FF and the DUP would merge with FG. Not helped by the below

    https://www.independent.ie/news/fine-gael-audience-applauds-as-dups-donaldson-says-ireland-should-join-the-commonwealth/37944279.html



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