DART+ (DART Expansion)

The connection is now mainly 22k operated, and it would have been a 2800 as the 29k sets only operate out of Connolly.

However the 2800s do have toilets, tables, and luggage racks, which DART doesn’t.

A better solution is to actually make a hybrid of the issues for the Rosslare / Wexford trains.

A direct intercity service should be maintained, like in the case of Limerick and Tralee with no changes required. Clever timetabling and some extra crossovers, could allow for one over taking en route in both directions, plus the use of Dun Laoghaire as a starting point and making Dart passengers change and not intercity. It is important to keep direct services.

For the others the turning back of services at Greystones (putting in a platform where the sidings are currently) and increasing the frequency on the line as a whole between Wexford and Greystones, thus freeing up the single line between Greystones and Bray.

It is a route operated by Intercity standard trains.

Whether there are cities involved at either end is beside the point - it’s a brand.

Let’s be honest you prefer coaches and that’s your personal view. It doesn’t mean that everyone else shares it or has to accept it. There’s no need to be so condescending about it. I do think USP’s are relevant, and being insulting about it isn’t adding to the discussion.

For plenty of people those positive aspects of rail travel do still matter.

There is nothing to stop more through trains from operating on the route except driver resources right now.

By having two ICRs cross at Greystones (replacing a DART between Bray and Greystones) you could still maintain frequency levels between Dublin and Greystones and increase frequency further south.

@LxFlyer Let's not kid ourselves here. The "Rosslare" service is de facto a Dublin commuter line. It's even included on the DART timetables.

You seem very sure that the result would be slower than at present, when DART services actually make the Greystones to Connolly run in the same time that the mainline train does (58-60 minutes), despite serving far more stations. For passengers with destinations on those DART-only stations, or any destination north of Connolly, this arrangement is better than at present. Plus it would allow more frequent services from Wexford.

Lets all be honest here, IR don't have the appetite or will to improve the line itself. DART is the best boy in town and they will be delighted it they could remove the constraints the Rosslare service brings.

The sad reality is, unless they add an extra line or passing loops, a compromise in Rosslare service will have to be reached if they wish to improve the Dart service.

Perhaps you can enlighten me on exactly what these investments are on the Sligo, Belfast and Rosslare routes on the Irish Rail network?

Well I was actually asking the other poster as they keep bringing it up.

The quad tracking is only at feasibility study stage and that hasn’t even started. It may still never happen. I believe it will eventually (and I’ve been one of main advocates for it on these boards), but that’s still not remotely at probable stage yet.

None of those other items result in speed improvements for the Enterprise because they’ll be stuck in between all stops DARTs.

I’m interested in exactly what investment is happening on those specific routes that the other poster is saying is happening that will deliver speed improvements.

The existing tender for the new Enterprise fleet envisages a two hour journey for a 2029 rollout as opposed to the current times. Many specific small improvements can be made that do not require detailed railway orders (money is a requirement).

There is also not a necessity to stop every stop along existing lines as there is now with for example the Sligo line at Maynooth. Why stop there all the time if there’s a DART?

The impact of Spencer Dock station and releasing Connolly constraints also needs to be considered.

In terms of “hard plans”, the addition of Metrolink at say Cross Guns could dramatically improve the ability of people to get where they actually want to go.

What are the time delays you want to outline to us? Given that you were unaware of the contents of the All Ireland Rail Review, I don’t hold out much hope.

But if you want people to choose train over coaches, improvements in speed is a important facter.

And hopefully they will, but the other poster repeatedly kept telling me that there were other investments happening that would negate any longer journey times that DART+ would cause for Intercity services.

As it turns out they’re referring to potential changes that might happen as opposed to things that definitely are.

That’s kind of important when talking about things like this.

There is also not a necessity to stop every stop along existing lines as there is now with for example the Sligo line at Maynooth. Why stop there all the time if there’s a DART?

why not stop there, the InterCity is going to be stuck behind a Dart anyway, same as the Wexford train currently.

I didn’t, what I said was that it is an unknown as there are so many variable factors to get to before DART+ is operational.

That goes from hard “plans” to more aspirational ones. The Enterprise fleet is absolutely getting improved with two hour journeys signalled. We are getting electrification along parts of these lines. We are getting new stations in arguably better locations (like Cross Guns) for where people actually want to go.

This also comes down to simple things like timetabling and number of stops inter cities take - part of the stretch in Enterprise is because of that.

You haven’t actually articulated what the delays could be.

Let’s go back to what we know here.

• changing trains is not unique, it happens elsewhere daily
• 5-10 mins is not material on a 3 hour journey
• The numbers taking the Rosslare route are small from southern Wexford.
• This proposal envisages improving frequency for all users

Finally, as has been stated (which you were unaware of), this has been looked at in the more “aspirational” All Ireland Railway Review. If that came to the conclusion that switching was necessary, then there’s not much more to be said. It’s delusional to think that a few people who don’t want to switch train takes precedence over a service that was always commuter in nature.