Public charging prices not dropping when wholesale prices drop

I don’t think we’ll see any big reductions or price competition while the fast charging networks are still expanding. Building charging infrastructure is expensive and the providers will be looking to cover costs.

On street charging for those without home charging is a different matter and shouldn’t be so expensive.

edit: typo

Its unfortunately the same for

Residential elec / gas customers , rates have come down, but very slowly

Bank accounts, when wholesale interest rates rise ; customer deposit interest rates do not follow suit

etc

This indicates a lack of regulation from the government

Price regulation doesn't work. It was tried in the past (1980s) and was a complete waste of time and money. Think about what you're trying to do and the complexity involved.

No-one is going to be reducing prices when their CapEx on getting sites up were anywhere from a few thousand (for an AC charger stuck on an existing wall), to 100s of thousands.

A 150KW DC charging unit costs 50k+. Once you add in groundworks, grid connections, multiple units, you're not far off half a million for a larger site.

That's a lot of electricity that needs to sold to make costs back, ignoring ongoing maintenance.

Are they not getting grants to install them - that's why Tesla is opening new sites to all cars, condition of the funding? Now, maybe the grants don't cover the full cost, I've no idea, but I don't think the companies re footing the full cost themselves.

Not any more. There are still accelerated capital allowances (100% in first year).

There will be a residential charging grant where off street parking is limited or impossible. No detail on that yet.

Ok, this is a new scheme. There was a previous one launched in 2022 which closed in early 2023.

40% is generous enough to be fair.

Here's what John Byrne the head of E-cars told the Irish Times on August 16th 2023.

“We purchase our electricity in blocks, so as the wholesale price has come down, and as we roll over our contracts and buy our next blocks of energy, then we hope to avail of those lower wholesale costs and pass those savings on to consumers. We always try to keep a good delta of pricing between us and petrol and diesel, because we know that cost helps to drive more people into electric motoring. The price of petrol and diesel has remained fairly constant, so the price of electricity will have to drop, and I’m hopeful that we’re going to be able to pass on those reductions in the near future.”

That “near future” should, hopefully, mean by the autumn of this year, and the plan is that prices will be reduced if not on the actual day of the new energy supply contracts being signed, then certainly within a matter of days.

They said they'd reduce prices and they never did. As the biggest player in the market no one else is going to move until they do. They also clearly understand that charging prices have to be cheaper than petrol or diesel so as to drive demand for electric cars, which new sales are down 14% this year. Someone really needs to find out answers as to why their prices are so high.

Free though... fairly obvious you'd be happy to avail of anything that was free. I'd include public transport in that.

We only had about 6 months of free charging, but even with the abuse chargers were usually not blocked. Much fewer EVs on the road then.

Electricity would need to hit Eur1.10 per KwH for it to be more expensive by the kilometre than the diesel it replaced for me.

Granted it wasn't a particularly efficient diesel SUV but it was fairly typical of the vehicle category that first time EV drivers nonetheless spring from.

Even if it was more expensive per kilometre the other huge advantages completely outweigh the cost. EV ownership is so much more than what it costs you or doesn't cost you per month. It's a completely different and completely better overall driving and ownership experience, and is contributing in its own small way to cleaner urban air for all of us.

It would want to be significantly more expensive to own and operate for me to think twice about a move to EVs, but I accept I am lucky in where I find myself.

Free chargers , free driveway charger and 5000 u grant , reduced tolls encouraged me to buy an EV, I will be honest (at the time) saving the planet did not . However , I'm on my 3rd EV now, and free charging is gone thankfully. I will say < I would not move back to non ev, and now that I have an EV and a solar system < I am hopefully doing my bit for the planet. So Yes incentives do work

The Street AC points were handy destination charge points but aren't most of them being replaced with a single DC unit now ?

Yes they were handy. Problem is they weren't profitable, or rather as profitable, as DC

The pumps themselves are relatively cheap, but the build cost of a petrol station with a shop, fit-out and other ancillary bits would be in the region of €2 million. A normal petrol station wouldn't be a valid comparison though, one of those Certa 24 hour jobbies with no staff costs or shop would be more like a charging hub. Substitute the cost of fitting tanks for the cost of getting the power in and everything else would be analogous. Probably.

Hard to get an exact price, there are so many variables, but around 2k seems to be a good working figure. You can find them for sale in China for around $1200.

Storage tanks aren't that expensive, but it's the installation that costs the big bucks. So I think fairly analogous to putting in a substation.

I'd say the margin would be more important than the volume. Obviously volume is part of the equation, but if you're getting a margin of (say) 10c per kWh vs 4-5c per litre, your volume would only need to be half. And the margin on 350kWh units has to be far more than 10c.

It was a hypothetical based on a given margin for electricity. I've no idea what the wholesale price of electricity is, but it has to be cheaper than domestic prices. So if I take Energia's price for 24hr (no night rate) at 24c and compare with the average 350kWh+ rates of ~76c. Assuming you've a car capable of taking an average of 200 from start to finish for (say) 15 minutes, that's 50kWh or €25. Your petrol pump would have to pump 500 litres in the same time to make the same money. Don't think that's physically possible.

I think you might be suffering from a bit of bias in your thinking here :)

How much fuel do you think an average garage pumps per day from one tank?

Now how many kwh do you think an average charger gets through in a day?

We did a project in college where we sat and watched the pumps for a day in a garage in Ashbourne, which wouldnt even be the busiest of garages. It just had a convenient place to park and watch the cars, the amount of people in each car and the amount of people that went into the shop from once place all day.

Each pump served an average of 14 cars per hour from opening til closing and there was a steady stream all day.

I never did that with an ev charger, but im guessing maybe 2 to 3 per hour per charger, if there is a steady stream all day.

Now we didnt check if they were filling fully or just half etc so we just assume a half tank for every car.

Also think about the fact that most EV owners do 95% of their charging at home too, so your market is less than a petrol pump.

I think you are getting a bit sensitive here.

You are not making any sense at all if you just think about what you are saying here.

I will bow out and leave you to it.

___

Gulp. Didn't think they would be close to that much. You can actually buy them in China for a fraction of that.

I would think not. Probably destined for 'Merica

Less frequent I think. You can see the stickers on the pumps with the date of the last inspection. I don't think there's a cost associated with these, could be wrong though.