Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

You would have to think that realistically the main problem most of the people in Arab countries & muslims in general have with the state of Israel is the way the Palestinian people are treated by the state of Israel.

So the reason that Israel was attacked by a coalition of Arab states the day after it came into existence as legally as any of the other states that were set up after the Ottoman Empire collapsed or after a colonial power like France or England moved out, it was because pre-emptively they felt sure that Israel was going to treat the non Jews on its territory worse than, say, the Turks treated its Greek/Christian minority, or India treated Muslims, or Pakistan treated Indians?

And not at all because they just refused to have Israel exist in any shape or form?

how did the Israelis act toward Palestinians the week, months, or years before they became the state of Israel? Hugs and rainbows?

This is not the gotcha you seem to think it is: neither Netanyahu, nor the state of Israel "sponsored" Hamas.

Rather they enabled money to be sent to Hamas from Arab states like Qatar because they believed, wrongly, that Hamas was prepared to negotiate peace in exchange for money. Turned out Hamas are not interested in peace at all. They are only interested in destroying Israel.

It's actually a very good reason for Israel to fight Hamas to the death, because Hamas have shown that it is not possible to live in peace with them (and also to dump Netanyahu for having been so naive, but that's a separate question.)

It could be suggested that Islamophobia is way more prevalent in fact. The majority of Jewish people in Europe are invariably middle class, well educated and fully integrated - Muslims are far more likely to be seen, even by right wing governments and media, as being 'outsiders' and not really belonging in the countries where they now reside.

The Guardian link doesn't work and it's not clear what your point is.The fact that anti semitism is common all over Europe is totally going to incite Israelis to give up on the fight for the existence of Israel.

No, wait, it won't. They've been there before, widespread anti semitism in Europe, that is, and they decided that the state of Israel was the only insurance against another holocaust. So such attacks outside Israel inevitably lead to more military response from Israel, not less.

And retaliation to Israeli abuses. Vicios circle.

I never said it was. I said that's how all those states in that region came into existence. But we accept the House of Saud, even though they were just the local thugs. Israel is a democracy, but Israel must be destroyed.

But it was Israelis who were murdered, kidnapped and raped on Oct 7th, not their government. And it's Jews - not even Israelis - who are being attacked in antisemitic attacks in Europe and America now. That's just antisemitism, to blame non Israelis, just on the grounds that they're Jewish.

Amazing after 30k deaths, 10k children being killed, posters are still bring banging the drum about anti semitism being thr biggest issue now. I doubt after all the destruction in Gaza that there will be many hostages left alive so now it is just a massacre of civilians in the hope of getting some of the bad guys in the cross fire.

That’s not Israel though.

When did the West Bank or Gaza last have an election and how is that Israel’s fault that they didn’t?

Israel is a democracy - and the only one in the region. If Israel felt it safe to withdraw from the occupied territories and Gaza tomorrow, the evidence is that whatever government took its place wouldn’t be a democracy either.

Who would Muslims in Israel or the West Bank go to if they wanted to report Islamophobia?

Antisemitism is cool now, its been redefined as meaning "anti genocide". @Donald Trump clarified this last night.