National Hurling League 2024 Discussion

that's 6 losses in the last 7 national finals

The biggest thing for Clare is they've created more runners that can break lines and time their runs to goal outside of Tony Kelly and Ryan Taylor (who are huge players/certain starters for Clare). O'Donnell came on for a half and had his first game of the year and tortured the Kilkenny fullback with movement. They're the kind of players who make Clare more dynamic going forward. But there's been more end product lately in terms of goals, it would seem. Which means Fitzgerald will stay further forward. Reidy has become a clever player - very good movement. But the league is the league. That said, it can only be good news for Clare, because teams will have to set up for more runners than the usual and Clare have more options than ever. While they've shown their hand, it's another thing coming up with the goods to stop them.

In other news, I hear Galway's Paul Bellew's politicking has been going into overdrive. Has a plan to get Galway into the Munster hurling championship that he's been flashing around the corridors of power. I did raise my eyebrows when I saw Galway in with the Munster teams in the under 19 development league. A clever buck when it comes to raising money and meeting the right people…

it’s one thing being a clever buck with a plan. It’s another thing getting what you want.

Munster do not need another county added to the mix seriously!

I would have agreed with this in the past. I would advocated for championship league with a final. But now I'm against it. Munster championship is a run away success. Provincial championships can work. There's no guarantees that an alternative championship will draw and profit like the munster championship. It's up to the provinces concerned to make it work. Leinster is in a precarious position. Galway killed the Connacht championship that never was with their standards. Schools with a 1000 pupils - inter county minors and under 21 players galore on teams. Nobody outside of a few schools within Galway ever had a chance of success. No clubs outside of Galway ever had a chance of success. No counties outside of Galway had a chance of success. Leinster going the same way. Combined schools is a joke - losing identities and teams all over the shop. Munster need to watch it too. Ar scoil Ris = a 1000 pupils, a set up with setanta that a lot of inter county sides don't have, money out the wazoo, pulling from clare and limerick minors and under 20s (eventually all these advantages will take a vice-like grip). Elitist set ups backed by money and tradition is becoming a cancer on the game. Ballygunner in Waterford - a better set up than the county side, laying waste to all clubs in the county. Club players happier with the club than the county. Same with Clonmel Commercials in Tipp football. These impossible standards eventually kill off weaker schools, weaker clubs, weaker counties in provinces, because there's no possibility of competing never mind winning. How do you convince kids to take part when they know the game is rigged, when there's no chance of competing? They're not stupid. They'll play other sports where they can be competitive.

Handicaps have to be introduced. Every school must have a team for every 250 pupils. No more than two county minors and two under 20 county men to a school team. Level the playing field, spread the talent out. Something has to be done because it can't keep going the way it's going. Well, it can keep going the way it's going but its going for disaster.

This is actually a really good suggestion. Taking last years teams plus Joe Mc finalists would it have looked something like this:

Munster:

Limerick - Champs

Clare - RU

Tipp - 3rd

Cork - out

Waterford - out

Leinster

Group A

Kilkenny

Wexford

Antrim

Offaly

Group B

Galway

Dublin

Westmeath

Carlow

Leinster QF

Wexford v Westmeath

Antrim v Dublin

Leinster SF

Kilkenny v Dublin

Galway v Wexford

Leinster Final

Kilkenny v Galway

AIQF Playoff

Dublin v Wexford

Relegation Playoff

Offaly v Carlow

AIQF

Galway v Tipperary

Clare v Dublin

AISF

Limerick v Galway

Kilkenny v Clare

AIF

Limerick v Kilkenny

So we would have ended up with the same provincial finals and same AI series from QF on except this time the initial Leinster groups would have more danger as only 3 games, one slip up could be costly (See Wexford v Westmeath last year). Plus Kilkenny and Galway would have had to play a 'knockout' Leinster SF plus there's an actual knockout AIQF playoff. It does increase the danger. Number of games doesn't change much, unless you go the long AIQF playoff route to the AI which would take 9 games.

There should be a playoff, but just to say the last time that was touted Waterford made the All Ireland final the following year.

Open draw is the only reform that makes sense. Even seeing the same teams playing each other year in year out is becoming quite stale aside from the lob sided aspect to the provinces.

There are more teams in Leinster than galway and your beloved kilkenny. The jeopardy in Leinster is that a team ends up being relegated to the joe mcdonagh championship.

As things stand in munster a team could go 10 years without a championship win and still not be relegated

😭😭 Didn’t say Kilkenny posters. Said usual suspects.

Thanks for proving my point. Cheers.

just threw up what’s common knowledge. Twenty seconds into this- https://x.com/offtheball/status/1777807448054931823?s=46
ps. This is not me. And he’s not from the same county. I suppose it’ll be the Munster conspiracy next.

😂😂😂 The thread was called Kilkenny and football.

He said everyone should play football. He said nobody should be like Kilkenny which is relevant to the previous questions you were posting. He said they're our national games and you can't play them to this level anywhere else and we should do everything we can to play and protect them. No problem, chief.

God knows. Nothing interesting anyway. Good luck.

Same story every year, people try to 'fix' Leinster and rave about Munster until the last week of the round robin where usually there are dead rubber matches in Munster and 2 so called Munster powerhouses seasons are over, and then people want scrap the provincials - rinse, cycle, repeat.

You say Munster has more danger? Tipp won 1 game out of 4 in last year's round robin but still went through. Limerick won 2 games out of 4 and went on to secure a Munster 5 in a row. Contrast that with Wexford who also won 2 games, but were an injury time disallowed goal away from being relegated to the Joe McDonagh. A wonderful 9 goal game that was I might add.

As bad as Leinster is touted to be, the round robin has gone down to the wire on a few occasions with the top 4 teams all being in danger of being knocked out in the final game. Last year's Leinster hurling final turned on the last puck of the game in extra time and was one of the most dramatic and entertaining finals in recent history.

Maybe you's are trying to 'fix' the wrong province?

Tipp were far from guaranteed progression, as if Cork had drawn with Limerick weren't Tipp knocked out? Context you say... you could also state that Westmeath have beaten Wexford just once in years, if ever (not sure)?

Your second point aligns with my overall point really... Why are people in this thread pontificating about what needs to change about the Leinster championship when the real barrier to progress is the provincial system, sacred Munster championship, etc.

After a record-breaking attendance total of close to 300,000 last season, ticket revenue will be greater than the 2022 figure of €4,736,267… If the product wasn't good people wouldn't spend their money and show up.

Look at the headlines: Tipperary and Limerick play out pulsating draw - Cork and Tipperary finish all-square after Munster epic - Clare stand tall in Munster thriller against Limerick -

John Kiely on the highlight of his career: 'John Kiely has hailed Limerick's Munster senior hurling championship success last year as “the highlight of my time involved with the team”.'

Pre-covid figures report: 'The increase is driven by Munster, which has drawn some extraordinary attendances, such as Sunday’s 39,115 for the meeting of Tipperary and Limerick despite a sense that the match wouldn’t matter in the greater scheme of things and the counties will meet again in the provincial final in a fortnight.

The overall figure to date is 329,542 as opposed to 310,051 12 months ago. It includes a 14,000 drop in Leinster from 106,387 to 92,386, offset by an increase of more than 30,000 in Munster.'

Looking at the Leinster hurling finals… A loss of 22,337 attendance in 20 seasons…

You'd be changing the most successful championship to save the second one. Makes no sense. Leinster has to solve Leinster.

Leinster have got to press the panic button because it's in freefall. A major wake up call is needed, from the schools game up. They've got to find ways to make the game competitive and draw people from Dublin, Wexford, Offaly, and elsewhere, otherwise the figures for finals and going to games will keep dwindling. The culture of going to games at all levels is dying around the province. It starts with the clubs and schools.

Pre- Covid figures:
Munster Hurling round robin attendances 2019
Total
2019: 329,542
2018: 310,051

Munster SHC
Total: 237,156
Average: 23,716

Final; Limerick v Tipperary, LIT Gaelic Grounds, 30th June

Leinster SHC
Total: 92,386
Average: 9,239

Final; Kilkenny v Wexford, Croke Park, 30th June

Hurling round robin attendances 2018
Munster SHC

Total: 203,664
Average: 20.366

Final: Cork v Clare, Thurles – 45,363

Leinster SHC
Total: 106,387
Average: 10,639