Fraudulent sale tactics by estate agent

dkRulez · 04-04-2024 11:55am #1

TL:DR Want to file a legal case against estate agent + builder for false or incorrect information during house booking.

I booked a new build house off plans, while booking in sales office we selected our preferred house number. The agent informed an issue with the back garden of the house, this resulted in us switching the house choice to another house. The agent confirmed our new choice of house doesn't have the issue at all. The new house was 2.5% (9-10K) more costly then our earlier selection. This was all verbal during the booking phase in the office.

Now we are about to get handover of the house and realized the agent mixed up the house no's and ended up giving up incorrect information of the house. Forcing use to rely on the information to change house to the one which has an issue.

My initial communication with agent and builder have been not taken seriously as they believe its a non issue and we would eventual accept the house in the state it is. My solicitor also thinks this is a small issue and could be ignored. However, the is going to cost me 5-8K to fix myself, plus has caused tremendous disappointment and stress for us.

If I close the house deal with a clause/notice to pursue this matter legally to cover the cost in future, do I stand a chance? I would like to avoid the legal hassle as this would not be a big work for the builder to do but I am 100% sure they wouldn't do it to avoid any more possible issues. Would I need any solicitor in future to pursue this case?

Lenar3556 · 04-04-2024 4:16pm

I don’t see even a stateable case. Suggest you review the title of the proposed purchase with your solicitor - If you aren’t happy, walk away.

Victor · 05-04-2024 4:36pm

In property contracts only the written contract matters. Any verbal comments are largely irrelevant.

So you need to find a complaint that is within the contract.

Of course, you are free to haggle with the builder to get the work done cheap.

Oscar_Madison · 06-04-2024 11:02am

What’s the chances of taking an action once the contracts are signed and you’re given the keys to the house? Is this “issue” whatever it is, called out in the contracts as specifically not provided or whatever? Could it be something that’s reasonably expected to be in place for such a house and that you could legally pursue post sale?

Hard to comment given I don’t know what the issue is- however, as much as I really hate to say it, until contracts are signed these guys have a right to pull out of the sale- in this market it will likely sell for higher than what you’re buying it for considering you likely placed a deposit down a year or more ago.

Just mind you don’t lose the house sale - it’s disgraceful yes - it’s costly yes- it shouldn’t happen yes- you’re right and they’re wrong - but keep your eye on the prize - what would happen if you lost this house- would you be “happier?”

thereiver · 07-04-2024 12:59pm

A verbal contract is worth nothing you should have asked for a written contract stating I'm buying house x no x for price x no significant issues on this house from the builder if you are not happy walk away you could get you solicitor to ask the builder in writing for 4k reduction

in price maybe as a gesture of goodwill

Either buy the house or walk away you may not get a new build house for the same price or you may have to commute a long distance

thereiver · 07-04-2024 1:01pm

It may be a simple mistake the agent made who can say if it's fraud

Jim2007 · 07-04-2024 1:22pm

One of the reason you need a solicitor during this transaction is because as you have demonstrated you don't know the law nor the legal terms you are using. Unlike us here on the internet, your solicitor knows all the details of this transaction and if they are saying this is not a big issue from a legal point of view then the chances of you making it one are not great.

Now it has been a very long time since I was involved in the Irish property market, but I very much doubt it has changed that much when it comes to going after the builder etc… from a legal point of view, later, it is not going to happen. The reason is that their lawyers will have put a legal structure in place that makes that very difficult. So the idea of getting a solicitor later to go after the builder etc… is not a good idea.

As others have said if you are not happy with this house, warts and all, then walk away because anything else is going to result in a lot more heartache and disappointment later.

Donald Trump · 07-04-2024 1:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121980602#Comment_121980602

Not quite true. The contract itself does have to be evidenced in writing, but in theory that does not mean that there could not be a claim based on misrep depending on the circumstance of how it arose.

However, I don't think the above is relevant for the OP. Based on the details as presented. It seems there isn't even a contract in place.

JVince · 07-04-2024 1:53pm

OP - I'll save you €10k minimum with a very simple bit of advice.

You had plenty of time to check everything. Your solicitor would have had the maps. So if you signed the contracts you had ample opportunity to see the precise location of the property.

Go down the legal route and it will cost you €10k +++ and you have absolutely no chance whatsoever of even having an element of a case against the estate agent

At best you could ask them to cancel your contract and buy a house elsewhere

Oh, any if you accuse and name someone of fraud and you do not have proof - THEY can take a case against you and that is VERY VERY costly. So advice is don't even think of using the word "fraud". You will lose and lose a lot.

thereiver · 07-04-2024 1:59pm

Its not worth going to court over a deal where you had no written contract this is not fraud it's probably careless record keeping you should have got a letter from the builder eg you are buying a house x for price x asap the builder could have made an honest mistake

Buy the house or walk away it's your choice

CramCycle · 07-04-2024 2:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058344957/fraudulent-sale-tactics-by-estate-agent

I am really confused, did you not get a receipt when you paid the booking deposit with the house number and prices. If so, are you saying they charged you 2.5% more for the house with the issue? Have they written down the issue anywhere?

Lenar3556 · 07-04-2024 4:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121988363#Comment_121988363

A booking deposit is simply an indication of intent by the purchaser that they have a genuine interest in purchasing the house. It’s fully refundable if they later decide not to proceed for any reason.

Lenar3556 · 07-04-2024 4:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121988265#Comment_121988265

The standard law society contract of sale specifically excludes any representations by, or on behalf of the vendor which are not expressly documented in the contract. -

So it doesn’t really arise.

CramCycle · 07-04-2024 5:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121989502#Comment_121989502

But you still get a receipt from the Estate agent when you put it down, or at least I did. It had details on it, nothing much, just the address and price but I was more asking from the OP, it sounds liek they ahve nothing, or what they have is different to what they are getting. Maybe I am tired, just found the post hard to follow.

dkRulez · 07-04-2024 7:55pm

Thanks everyone for sharing their thoughts. We have signed contracts and this issue didn't come up earlier due to access restrictions around the property. I do understand from a legal perspective what in the contracts ultimately matters. In our situation we were presented with a CRITICAL important information which influenced our decision on selecting the house and unselecting the first choice. Now the critical information shared turns out to be incorrect and is no where in writing. If we were not presented with this information in the first place, everything would have been absolutely fine.

House booking in Dublin are split second decisions where you have only 2-3 mins to decide before the next one in the queue is already beside you fighting for choices. Their is no way we are walking away from this deal due to negligence from a builder and their vendor. Not everything could be in writing in contracts all the time, contracts are pretty standard with hardly scope to cover all details or modify them. If its too much of time, energy and money for me to legally sort this out with builder so is it for the builder as well.

Therefore, my whole point of the OP is to understand is incase of not resolving this amicably, can a case relying solely on verbal information stands any chance in court?

CramCycle · 07-04-2024 8:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121990244#Comment_121990244

Its a bit weird it's written nowhere, an email, a text, something but without that, then no, there is nothing to even complain about.

Donald Trump · 07-04-2024 8:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121989524#Comment_121989524

Speaking of "expressly", I expressly said "in theory" rather than "in practice" 🙂

circadian · 07-04-2024 9:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121990244#Comment_121990244

This could be the crux of it all. The housing crisis means there is massive demand, you put the deposit down as they create an urgency to do so. In my mind I would not be putting a deposit down on anything this substantial without any sort of written agreement in place, surely there was some kind of paperwork involved?

dkRulez · 09-04-2024 9:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121990514#Comment_121990514

So we put the deposit and signed the contracts and are now approaching handover. The issue with the backyard was a misinformation (mistake) from the sellers side impacting us. Only coming in light when handover is due. It is so minor that would be missed in 9/10 contracts, but then to fix this mistake it would cost me 4-5K more fix it.

This is the crux of the matter, the seller knows they gave a wrong info (which they haven't accepted) to us but we they expect we should get over it and move ahead. Most of the agent, seller and even my solicitor don't understand the problem as they are not at receiving end of it. While I would like to be rectified for us before the handover, however I have a strong feeling they won't and therefore I am weighting my option on how much of a fight if I could put legally which could force builder to rectify the issue.

The closest analogy for this is, It's like ordering a cake for a child's birthday and being told it may contain allergens. You change the order, but later find out the baker was mistaken. and the new choice of cake still contained those allergens and your child gets sick and causes tremendous distress and psychological impact on his/her mind for lifelong. While you wouldn't expect a lab or clinical report before ordering a cake, you would reasonably expect an apology and compensation.

granturismo · 09-04-2024 10:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121996037#Comment_121996037

Why wont you give details on the specific issue? It might help.

dkRulez · 09-04-2024 11:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121996135#Comment_121996135

The garden is stepped in 70-30% ratio. 30% is patio and then a ~30cm drop for rest of the lawn. Stepped gardens is normal but with 10-15% ratio of steps, this one is 30%. if not attentive easily someone can trip over. Our original choice was had a flat garden, but agent mixed up and told the other way around.

Oscar_Madison · 09-04-2024 11:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121996391#Comment_121996391

yeah patio is narrow enough alright - however it’s not going to cost you the amount of money you stated above to rectify - I’d try and get going with looking forward to moving in - if the builder is still on site then may a cash deal might get changed what you’re looking to do as opposed to get someone new in to contract with - but extending that patio won’t cost what you stated above and it will be lovely once finished - enjoy it and try and forget about the issue I’d actually love to have a stepped down patio to the garden

3DataModem · 15-04-2024 6:49am

Less chance of flooding or water egress from garden = win.

As you now know, you almost certainly have no recourse. You might be able to get released from your contract as a goodwill gesture, but you clearly don't want that.

The one solution the builder might offer is that after closing they come along and "do something" to help with the situation. Frankly, I'd run a mile from any builder offering unpaid work.

A nice decking with steps or something will make that look fantastic.

Fraudulent sale tactics by estate agent

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