Reversal of Recent Transfer In The Civil Service

Lost545 · 27-06-2021 4:57pm #1

Hi All,

Hope I can get some advice on an issue I am having. I transferred from a government department were I was working as a Clerical Officer to another department a few months ago. I entered the 2020 Clerical Officer competition and applied through an Expression of Interest. I have made a big mistake with this choice.

I was wondering is there any circumstance that this move could be reversed and I could move back to my old department in my previous role/grade? I have had some bad experiences including verbal abuse, bullying etc since my transfer and feel I can no longer to continue working for my current department. Its affecting my sleep and overall mental health. Moral is low with staff and the training is awful. I feel trapped but dont want to leave the civil service and would love to return back to my old department.

Could my transfer be reversed under this circumstance if my current department agreed to the move?

I have only been with my new department less than 3 months so hoping it might not be too late. This move took place under an open competition and not mobility. I have contacted both PAS and PeoplePoint who have basically told me its not under there remit and to contact my local HR. Has anybody had any similar experiences? All advice is fully appreciated.

27-06-2021 5:29pm

I have seen it happen, exactly once - but that does not mean it hasn't happened more times then that.

Contact your HR and the HR in your first Department, and also the Employee Assistance Service. Start making your case to return. The EAS were who successfully advocated for and negotiated the reversal in the case I know off.

Best of luck.

Lost545 · 27-06-2021 5:53pm

Thanks for the helpful advice, I will indeed contact the Employee Assistance Service.

maneno · 28-06-2021 3:59pm

Lost545 wrote: »

Hi All,

Hope I can get some advice on an issue I am having. I transferred from a government department were I was working as a Clerical Officer to another department a few months ago. I entered the 2020 Clerical Officer competition and applied through an Expression of Interest. I have made a big mistake with this choice.

I was wondering is there any circumstance that this move could be reversed and I could move back to my old department in my previous role/grade? I have had some bad experiences including verbal abuse, bullying etc since my transfer and feel I can no longer to continue working for my current department. Its affecting my sleep and overall mental health. Moral is low with staff and the training is awful. I feel trapped but dont want to leave the civil service and would love to return back to my old department.

Could my transfer be reversed under this circumstance if my current department agreed to the move?

I have only been with my new department less than 3 months so hoping it might not be too late. This move took place under an open competition and not mobility. I have contacted both PAS and PeoplePoint who have basically told me its not under there remit and to contact my local HR. Has anybody had any similar experiences? All advice is fully appreciated.

OP sorry that you have to go through that, nobody deserves to be abused while working. Involve HR and hopefully you get transferred back. Ensure when involving HR that you have as much evidence as possible on what has happened to you, are you in any union?

Lost545 · 28-06-2021 6:54pm

maneno wrote: »

OP sorry that you have to go through that, nobody deserves to be abused while working. Involve HR and hopefully you get transferred back. Ensure when involving HR that you have as much evidence as possible on what has happened to you, are you in any union?

Hi Maneno, no I never joined one. I am certified to be out of work for a few weeks. Do you think I should join Forsa immediately?

AndrewJRenko · 28-06-2021 8:52pm

Lost545 wrote: »

Hi Maneno, no I never joined one. I am certified to be out of work for a few weeks. Do you think I should join Forsa immediately?

Yes, join the union asap. And consider the options for transferring other than back to your old Dept. Give HR more options for solving your problem.

Flinty997 · 29-06-2021 10:43am

As said above a transfer anywhere else might happen much quicker.

flended12 · 01-07-2021 9:06am

If you are being treated in this way, best to have as many supports around you as possibe. Join union straight away, contact HR, contact Employee Support Services, Citizens Advice, DOCUMENT EVERY INSTANCE. If any of the treatment you have recieved is on email print and store same.

You may not be the only one being treated like this and your efforts may actually be a win win for all staff.

You can always transfer and still fight this case, main thing is you and your health is paramount and the "bully" is called out.

Good luck with it.

lucat · 11-09-2021 7:41pm

Hi all,

I'm in the same boat, minus the bullying aspect. I want to reverse the transfer before I've been in the job too long, or else get moved to a more suitable role in the Dept. or transferred to another Dept.

If none of these options are possible, I'll be job hunting very actively.

Were you successful OP?

Lost545 · 17-09-2021 11:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117877999#Comment_117877999

Hi Lucat,

Unfortunately I was not successful. My current department said I could go back and HR put in a transfer request back to my old department, unfortunately my old department refused the request saying I could not simply transfer back as it was unfair to people on lists from Mobility/Open Competitions. I found it strange that two different departments had a different interpretation on this issue. My belief was that under circumstances like mine a transfer could be reversed. Also, I did not find the Employee Assistance Service very helpful. They would send me emails and promise to have a telephone conversation but would never follow through with a time or date. I have basically given up at this point. Currently applying for other jobs and hopeful something will come up soon. For the meantime I still work for the department I had issues with and have had to use my annual leave and other types of leave just to manage/survive working there without walking out the door jobless.

lucat · 22-09-2021 12:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117906641#Comment_117906641

Sorry to hear that, it sounds stressful. It looks like your best option might be to ask HR if you can be transferred to a different team. That will solve the problem for you in terms of mental health and for them as they remove you from a situation that could cause them more trouble down the road.

tap28 · 02-10-2021 11:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117906641#Comment_117906641

I about to have a similar situation, I was promoted to AP 3 1/2 months ago off an Inter-Departmental competition. I now want to revert to my previous grade in my original department. In my case I know my original position has not been filled and is still vacant.

I passed the 3 month probation period and up until I saw your post I thought it would not be a problem to go back. After all if I failed probation I would be sent back.

What department wouldn’t let you back?

Lost545 · 02-10-2021 8:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966675#Comment_117966675

Hi Tep28,

I think in your situation as you were promoted you can indeed go back to your former grade without any issues. In my situation I transferred to my current department from an open competition at the same grade were there does not seem to be a clear pathway to return regardless of circumstances. PeoplePoint and PAS were not able to answer my question and kept telling me to contact my local HR. Then my local HR said I could go back with my old department saying they are wrong.

the5th · 28-04-2023 3:37pm

I'm here to resurrect this old thread. I am in exactly the same situation. I moved on an open competition, and the new dept is absolutely not the right place for me. (Not to mention that they totally pulled a fast one, putting AOs doing never ending casework....)

How did this case end up? I'm mad to revert back to my old place. The terms of service doc circulated by PAS with the competition says that, where the candidate was a serving civil servant, in the event of failing probation, an officer will revert to previous grade and position in their previous department. Surely opting out of the job equals failing probation?

Interested to see if there was ever any more on this

02-11-2023 10:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532576#Comment_120532576

I’ve the same issue - moved on mobility about 3 months ago and I feel it’s not the job for me (place is nice but not what I thought it was going to be )… talking to the previous area I moved from and feel they can/would take me back (havent replaced me - they’re having issues in getting people in) did you get your move back

Been jack · 30-11-2023 12:38am

I'm in same issue, moved on mobility at start of month. Has anyone been successful in getting a reversion with mobility?

03-04-2024 8:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121435777#Comment_121435777

did you hear anything about this or get a reversal

bobbysands81 · 05-04-2024 12:12am

I know of at least 2 people in the recent past that got a reversal of a mobility move. As others have said, speak to both HRs and talk to the CSEAS.

08-04-2024 9:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121977593#Comment_121977593

may i ask if you know, how long were they working in where they transferred to on mobility, and reverted back

bobbysands81 · 08-04-2024 10:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121994608#Comment_121994608

Neither party was very long in new Dept. One was probably close to a year, one was only about 6 months. In both instances it was the same Dept that took people back. In both cases the other Depts were different and the grades were different. One case was very recent.

I would deffo contact your Employee Assistance Officer to have a chat and see if they can assist. Many EAOs have a good relationship with HR and might be able to assist. www.cseas.per.gov.ie

Ted222 · 08-04-2024 11:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117906641#Comment_117906641

If you are genuinely being bullied, your current HR is obliged to do something about this. This may not necessarily mean a return to your previous job but it certainly involves the bullying coming to an end.

It may be perceived that your only objective is to get your old job back. You need to be very clear that the issue is one of bullying and be very forceful in insisting that HR address the problem. If you don’t persist, they won’t follow up on it. They take the path of least resistance every time.

Try to speak with someone senior in HR . Most of the general staff are not in a position to help.

bobbysands81 · 09-04-2024 1:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121995128#Comment_121995128

@ted222 Unless the poster makes an official complaint about the bullying (or someone else does), there is nothing HR can do. They will not get involved unless a complaint is made.
@lost545 I am really sorry to hear that you’re going through a difficult time in work and not being supported. Please consider contacting the CSEAS again for support, they really are superb at what they do. You should at least contact the manager of the service to notify that you’ve been in touch and they haven’t followed up appropriately.

Ted222 · 09-04-2024 7:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121995359#Comment_121995359

That’s not really the case. I worked as a HR manager in a large government department so I have a good idea how these things work in practice.

In the OP’s case, HR won’t want the hassle of a bullying case any more than the OP will want to submit a formal complaint. In these instances, a mutually acceptable “workaround” is usually found that puts a lid on things.

However, this requires the OP to report the matter informally at first to their own HR (not Peoplepoint) and to continue to agitate to the point where HR does something for them. A formal complaint is the last resort, not the first.

There is plenty HR can do without going the formal route but they won’t do it unless pressed. The OP will need to make their case assertively.

Been jack · 10-04-2024 8:59am

I didn't get my reversion, I requested the move within the first month of moving . My department was willing to release me but DSP would not allow the reversion.

bobbysands81 · 11-04-2024 1:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121995556#Comment_121995556

According to the anti-bullying policy, “Dignity at Work”, there has to be a complaint before HR can deal with a bullying accusation. Nobody wins in a bullying case.

HR may try and deal with an issue informally but this is hard to do without them being seen to be taking sides. In all bullying cases both parties (or more) have to be given the right of reply. To have the right of reply there has to be an accusation.

Ted222 · 11-04-2024 9:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003647#Comment_122003647

“HR may try and deal with an issue informally but this is hard to do without them being seen to be taking sides.”

It’s not really and that was my earlier point.

The formal route is and should be the last resort. I had people who outlined horrible examples of bullying but steadfastly refused to go the formal route. They had neither the patience or resolve to fight. They just wanted out.

The people they complained of were at a very senior level in the department and there was an understandable fear that the Department would protect itself. From my experience, it’s a fear that’s well-founded.

I’m aware of two very senior individuals who continue to operate with impunity. One of them has been further promoted despite some very serious allegations that couldn’t be pursued.

sun cream · 21-05-2024 1:18pm

Did you get your reversal? If so have you any advice on how you went about it? I'm in a similar situation, new department is grand and people are lovely but the work is just not what I thought and I think I'm made a big error in judgement in taking the mobility offer.

turbodiesel · 13-06-2024 10:21am

@sun cream

How did you get on?

I came across this link below about probation and thought it might be useful.

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1956/act/46/section/7/enacted/en/html

Reversal of Recent Transfer In The Civil Service

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