En-suite final bill question

Tradesman should supply the materials. Apart from them getting them at trade prices, you save almost 10% on VAT alone. Tradesman claims back 23% vat on materials and then charges 13.5% for everything.

You should have asked for a quote before the job started. Without a quote he can charge whatever he wants. Personally I don't see what difference it makes on what percentage goes to the tiles, electrician etc. The bill is the bill and that's what you owe. The time for haggling is before the work starts and not when completed.

I'd be more concerned about the quality of the tradesmen and work done. For example all electric work in the bathroom, lights, showers mirror with lights etc must be done by a Registered Electrical Contractor. By law a RECI cert must be issued for the electric work in the bathroom. This is where I'd be focusing my attention as you gave him a blank cheque by not giving a quote first.

It's not uncommon for a renovated bathroom to cost €15k or more so the total price you are paying doesn't sound over the top at today's rates

I've never given a breakdown on any jobs. Even on a quote, if asked for a breakdown I'd bow out & decline the job. That's just me. I don't know what the norm is on breakdowns. If he doesn't want to give a breakdown then he doesn't have to.

The only thing I'd say is that a breakdown now is pointless as you didn't get a quote. Plumber is actually a contractor on your job by the sounds of it. He's perfectly entitled to make a profit on the electrician and tiler. That's what a contractor does. It's how they make money

Prices differ throughout the country and haven't a clue about prices in kerry. But just to give an example of the first time installation of an electric shower,in Dublin 12 years ago you could have one installed, complete with RECI cert for around €550 Inc vat. Now the same job averages €1500 and can be higher

Not in my company. We never charge full retail prices for materials we get wholesale. It will always work out more expensive for you to buy a Triton T90sr & pay for the fitting separate when using my company. By law you have to pass on the vat difference. Revenue are very interested companies not passing on the vat difference when applicable

We give a firm quote upfront for parts and labour. Our website gives the actual price for a job. This saves me a lot of time on the phone with time wasters. Same price for everyone. We don't haggle on prices and we don't do cash prices.

OP seems to have been charged the going rate. I just don't see what difference it makes knowing what the electrician got paid. Plumber is the contractor on this job. He is supposed to make a profit on the tiler and electrician. He arranged for each trade to be there on the correct days etc. Op might have saved money if he supplied the three tradesmen himself & did foreman on the job himself. This seems to have been left to the plumber. He gets paid for being the foreman aswell as his plumbing fees.

I feel for op. He's in a difficult situation. It's usually much more civilised getting a firm price upfront

I agree on the foreman and blame arguments. It can make more sense to have all that on the builder / tradesperson. Its too late for the OP to do anything about prices now.

I was in a similar post to OP last year but was quoted price for tiler and electrical. The tiling was working out at just over €100 per m² and I was buying the tiles. I questioned why so high and the guy never replied. It was poor form and indicative of the silly market we are in where trades can change massive sums for basic work. If you question the quote, they move to next person that won't care. The materials being supplied were at listed at higher prices (RRP) than the supplier sold in showroom.

I scaled back my plans and did the work myself, without the electrical work.

a skilled trade and basic work dont fall into the same category.

This does not apply to all,but of course there is going to be a mark up on the materials.The company is hardly going to spend time in the suppliers getting the material,driving back and forth.

All time has to be paid for.

People forget the cost of actually running a business!

Here's the thing. When you give a breakdown they start talking to Mr Google. Oh I can get this €5 cheaper & that €2.50 cheaper. They want you to buy from businesses that aren't your normal supplier. You have no idea how they stand over their goods. Them making changes to the original things quoted messes the whole thing up & a 2nd or 3rd unpaid visit might be required for a job you still don't have.

When I give a quote it is an overall quote. I supply from my supplier & that is it. Giving a breakdown doesn't help the client in any way because my quote doesn't change in any way. It's a firm quote & I don't haggle. Plumbing Facebook group last week, this very topic came up. Over 2500 members & everyone that commented said RUN! everyone of them has experince that this job will end up a nightmare job.

I had a property maintenance company many years ago. Homeowner bought exterior paint with a 10 year guarantee. Part of the guarantee states that all other paint had to be removed before new paint was applied. Homeowner asked me to quote removing 20 layers of paint that had been applied over 50 years or so on concrete windowsills. I told her there is no such thing a paint that doesn’t need repainting for 10 years but went out & worked out a quote. She rang me a few days later saying that they spent a few hours scraping over the weekend & wanted me to price it again. I told her my price was to remove the bottom layer of paint so it didn't matter how many hours she spent at it, my original quote still stands. I don't have time to deal with nonsense.

Life is too short. I live a stressfree life

A busy tradesman can spend 7 or 8 hours per week pricing work. They don't pluck figures out of the sky within minutes. There is serious time involved with pen & paper, checking prices for everything with supplier etc. Giving a breakdown is far more time consuming or worse still itemising the whole quote. Smoe companies now charge €100/€250 for a quote. The quote fee then comes off the overall bill if homeowner goes ahead with the job

The ‘two thirds rule’ applies.

You can charge 13.5% VAT on the full job where the labour component is at least 66.6% of the total cost to the customer exclusive of VAT.

For example you fit parts to a shower that cost you €25.00 Ex. VAT and you charge a customer €150.00 incl VAT for the job. That’s fine at 13.5% VAT.

You buy a shower for €200 + Vat and charge the customer €400 incl vat for the supply and fit of a replacement shower - The VAT on that transaction should be 23%.

Yes the 2/3 rule applies. However you are getting muddled by the rules. The 2/3 applies to the materials not the labour.

From Revenue website:

"If the cost of the goods used in carrying out the work does not exceed two-thirds of the total price, the rate which applies to the service then applies to the entire transaction."

In ops case the overall vat charged for materials & labour would be 13.5% as the labour is actually more than half of the overall cost. Labour can be as little as 1/3 the overall price.

Op paid almost 10% extra in vat on the materials. That's in the region of €350/€400 paid needlessly to revenue.

It's a learn curve for op and luckily the overall cost of the job seems reasonable by today's prices

It's worth pointing out that there is a massive difference between an estimate and a quote. An estimate has no legal meaning as such. An estimate is commonly referred to as a guesstimate. You are literally guessing how much it might cost. A job can come in double the estimate but still the contractor gets paid. It's a waste of time asking for an estimate from this point of view.

A quote is what everyone should be looking for and getting before the contractors start. We don't start a job until the homeowner has a firm quote from us. When we finish all they have to pay it the quote, unless they added on extras. A quote is part of a legal contract. A quote makes it very difficult for the contractor to look for more money. An estimate means nothing & contractor can still change whatever they want at the end of the job

Cant recall exactly, but 12-15 comes to mind. Not complicated tiling.

Any decent tradesman is on minimum of 50k a year. So at least 1k a week.

Add in business costs, tools, running a van and VAT, and youre close to 1800 minimum, depending on the trade, where they're located, the size of their operation etc.

So my rule of thumb is that one tradesman will cost 400euro a day. I had two lads fitting roof windows and it was a 900euro in labour for a full 10 hours work.