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Leinster v La Rochelle match thread

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Comments

  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Jared Obedient Nose


    Well I would have posted it in the Munster thread but you've banned me from there.



  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,142 ✭✭✭fitz


    I presume it's because there was a Munster fan criticising the booing of ROG earlier in the thread.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,437 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    That's exactly the point the poster is making.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,711 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    It comes across as petty and will drag this thread down a particular route.

    Mods: is it possible to have a thread dedicated to provincial point scoring and have posts automatically moved there so they don’t clog up decent threads?



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Jared Obedient Nose


    Alright? Not really that fussed by how it comes across.



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  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,142 ✭✭✭fitz


    Yeah, it seems pretty obvious. It's a bit daft bringing it up this long after the game, but equally daft questioning what it had to do with this thread. It's just spoiling for arguments.

    +1 for a provincial bickering thread that posts could be moved to. Would be amazing to have threads unburdened of that nonsense, let people who want to go at it do so to their hearts content somewhere it's not going to derail thread topics.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,530 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Both games at altitude is going to be a challenge.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    They didn't nearly beat us, that game was never in doubt

    We could be still playing it now and Leicester wouldn't have won it



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,530 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    If they'd got a few more lineouts they'd have walked more tries in.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Jared Obedient Nose


    And if my granny had wheels she'd be a motorbike.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,751 ✭✭✭This is it


    If we grounded the ones that were held up we'd have had more tries.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,915 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Leinster completely took the foot off the pedal against Leicester



  • Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭moonshy2022


    Does last weeks match really matter that much after last nights performance ? ……does it really !



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,336 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    And you can probably count yourself lucky that hasn't been replicated elsewhere.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,915 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Lads, cut it out please



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,915 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Apologies

    @theVersatile sorry! That was uncalled for



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,336 ✭✭✭theVersatile




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 773 ✭✭✭Zeugnis


    I only discovered recently that Chabal wasn't actually that big - 6,3 and 115 kg. It was his menace that made him seem outsized.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Chabal's looks made him a far bigger player than he actually was, in every sense of that. He was a very decent player, but nothing amazing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 359 ✭✭antietam1




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,711 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Still pretty big, especially for 15 years ago. David Wallace for a back row contemporary comparison was listed at 6’2 and 105kg.

    Anyone remember Oliver Merle from the 90s?



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,530 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    He was tiny for a second rower, pretty big for a back rower.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    Merle and Cabanne. Merle was called Le Massif Centrale.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,530 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Blackbird and Treehouse



  • Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭Rootsblower


    Derwyn Jones middling quality lock for Wales mid 90s was a monster for the times he played in. 6ft 10 and nearly 20 stone. Always used to line up for the anthems next to Arwel Thomas who was 5ft 9 and about 11 stone dripping wet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,711 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Was he the lad they used to call the lighthouse?



  • Administrators Posts: 54,168 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    whatever about Jenkins, the difference between Leinster 2024 and the 3 previous attempts was Joe McCarthy.

    He was a machine and brought the sheer brute force that had been missing before. A pest in mauls, strong carries, hit rucks like a train. He has a real hard edge to him, massive player.

    Jenkins was decent, some good and some bad. Had La Rochelle turned the result around im sure he’d be getting criticised for his large part in their try at half time that gave them a sniff.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,638 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Can't wait to see it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,638 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Was on a double shift, so I missed it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Still can't quite get my head around the fact he wasn't in the 23 for the final last year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    Wade Dooley and Paul Ackford in the early 90s, Dean Richards no. 8 were, naturally big units in the early 90s. Funny pre 1995 they really looked unconditioned. They were I suppose. Very hard to judge with fellas doing serious work in the gym for 15 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 704 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey




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  • Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭Rootsblower


    Great performance from Leinster can’t wait for Croker.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 704 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Magnanimous in defeat, post game comments from O'Gara

    “Très dur,” were the first words uttered by Ronan O’Gara at his post-match press conference. “Très, très dur.” Very, very hard, he emphasised. But although evidently downbeat after his side’s two-year reign in the Champions Cup came to a crushingly decisive end, he was suitably magnanimous.

    “It’s easier to move on,” said O’Gara, whatever about accepting it. “If it’s a close one, you always have a lot more regrets but if you have a small bit of cop on, you could see that the dominant team was in blue.

    “They were shaper to everything and they made it difficult for us and their rush defence worked well and in the first 70, I don’t think we won a breakdown penalty bar the kick-off that we took.”

    O’Gara highlighted Ryan Baird’s try within four minutes of the restart to cancel out La Rochelle’s maul try in first-half overtime as the key turning point.

    “We were quite happy going in just 10 points down at half-time considering the way the game unfolded. But to give them a soft score, obviously they executed well, but it was quite soft for them to go out to 17 again. It killed our momentum and we were chasing the game from that.

    “And then the last 30, we were inaccurate in a lot of our basics. There is no place for that in quarter-finals, so we must get better.”



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    There was nothing on the tele last night so I stuck on the LAR game again. I’ve seen comments on Jenkins being anonymous. Didn’t think that was the case yesterday and on 3rd viewing I’m fairly sure that was one of his best performances in a blue shirt. Some cracking tackles, absolutely melted guys at rucks a few times, was the main target in the line out while he was on and gave JGP some really good, clean ball.

    But one of the things that really stood out on rewatch was his work rate. The number of rucks that he was pillar at was impressive. He may not have actually done anything, but when you see the likes of Skelton walking around the place all game and Jenkins is there again and again filling those spaces you start to appreciate it more. We moved them side to side a lot in that game, be it through skip passes or cross fields. It sucked all the energy from them. And Jenkins just kept going.

    Sure he gave up a few pens, but one or two of those were harsh and/or against how Dickson had previously officiated similar incidents. The one where he turned it over but didn’t release in the tackle (correct call) was just minutes after Botia had won LAR a penalty for doing the exact same thing. When Doris questioned Dickson on it, Dickson said that Botia had to release to get his hands on the ball. That exact logic would have meant Jenkins was legal, but Dickson seemed to forget his own logic there only minutes later.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,330 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Yeah Jenkins was quality.

    Watching it live, my MOTM would have been Larmour and rewatching it last night confirmed that, I don't know if he's ever had a more complete game. Yeah, he didn't burn as many defenders as you'd expect but he was rock solid and worked his ass off. And Teddy Thomas was a non-entity against him.

    I think there's a fair argument that JGP is the best scrum-half-who's-not-Dupont in the world right now, he's absolutely unplayable.

    Frawley was excellent too, especially for a man dropped in at the last minute into his third-best position.

    My only note of caution is about Ross Byrne - yes, he was excellent, but his ability to play front-foot rugby behind a dominant pack has never been in question. It's when we're going backwards that the gap to Sexton always became more apparent.

    It's also a lovely feeling to use the phrase "dominant pack" in a good way after a Leinster-LAR game.

    I thought Dickson managed the game pretty well, thought he missed a few niggly bits (mainly from Botia) but nothing major and got the big calls right, for the most part the game flowed well.

    As for LAR, I think they may need to rethink their policy of packing the forwards with as many giant lads as they can. That was probably the biggest pack Leinster have ever picked, and LAR still had 60kg on us. But when the power game is negated, where do you go?



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,530 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Larmour was excellent going forward and in defence. It was a much more mature performance than we often see from him in terms of pragmatic decision making. The La Rochelle half-backs did manage to catch him out of position a number of times with some extremely accurate line kicking so there's still a work-on there.

    I wouldn't say Milne really repaid the faith the coaches had in picking him over Healy but hopefully this kind of tough test will bring him on a bit at scrum time.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭CMcsporty


    The most enjoyable performances from Irish teams always need the fly hack and chase

    Glorious left-footed hoof



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,131 ✭✭✭ironingbored


    According to ESPN (🤔), Jenkins was our 2nd best tackler with 12/1 (as did Doris 12/2). Top was Kelleher with 14/1 which is astonishing seeing as he came on in the 58' minute!

    Interestingly, our front row had 8 passes vs their zero.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Jared Obedient Nose


    Kelleher was incredible when he came on. Pure aggression.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    I rewatched it yesterday and Jenkins was really good. Watching live, the obvious moments were the silly penalty concessions but he absolutely emptied the tank around the park in his 50 minutes. Top tackler, was our go to line out jumper (think he took 4 including an important one while stretching on his own 5m line after a great Iribaren kick) and got his hands on the ball repeatedly. For context, McCarthy and Baird got their hands on the ball 15 and 13 times in 80 minutes whilst Jenkins managed to do so 11 times in his 50 minutes so he was every bit as busy as others.

    I don't think he has played that well for Leinster before. Hopefully he maintains this level for the rest of the season.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Baird is another huge difference. At the end of last season he was a young extremely athletic lock/backrow hybrid who was firmly a substitute and not close to challenging for a starting spot when all were fit.

    This year he has shown he has shown he is an international quality six and has forced a starting Lion, who is in great form himself, to sit on the bench with very little questioning or surprise from anyone. Take out experience and leadership qualities and he is in my opinion head and shoulders Ireland's best option at six now. From what I heard he even ran the lineout from six at the weekend that functioned very well.

    Both him and McCarthy made a big difference and given their age and experience they're only scratching the surface of their potential. One other difference was Osbourne's clearances in the second half - something Leinster struggled with in both finals, especially last year, but the 22 year old handled fantastically, with the rest of his game also being good.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Feel that is a bit of hindsight and somewhat ignoring the context.

    McCarthy had only played 9 games all season last year for a total of 305 minutes (so less than 4 games total).

    His lack of game time is even more pronounced when you look at the lead up to the final - in the four month before he only played a total 35 minutes, coming on as a sub in two games surrounded by Leinster's weakened URC side.

    They could have still risked him and still had in the 23 for the final but McCarthy clearly wasn't training to the right level and/or hitting his fitness numbers. With Ryan going off and he was on the bench instead of Jenkins, he would have been asked to play 61 minutes against that LAR physicality which all evidence point to him not being ready for.

    The timing of McCarthy's injury was just incredibly unfortunate and if he'd come back even a few week earlier I'd be confident he'd have been in the 23. Given how tight the final was, I don't see it being much of a miss not to have included him, given the risk vs reward difference of other option on the bench.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Oh it's absolutely hindsight, I just find it a bit mad. He was on the bench for the RWC QF not long after! If I had a time machine I'd be selecting him over Moloney rather than Jenkins, but it's 100% a hindsight call.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,240 ✭✭✭crisco10


    I feel there was misdirection in the Leicester game, every left footed exit was taken by Lowe, even when Leicester were ruthlessly charging the angle for his clearance which lead to a few poor exits with underwhelming distance.

    Fast forward a week, and suddenly the left footed exits are all being taken by Osbourne who is relatively unmarked.

    Just felt like it was a little surprise held back by the Leinster management/team.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    We were excellent in the game on Saturday. But we got some luck too. Osborne was blocked down in the middle of the pitch in the first half, another day that could be run in for a try. LAR were pinged when our scrum was under pressure in the corner in first half - for a push on JGP - looked pretty harsh, could easily have been a turnover and try.

    We thoroughly deserved the win, and it wasn't even close in the end, I'm just conscious that it could have been tighter/more nerve wracking. I know there's a view that you make your own luck, but we had our fair share of it the other day, whereas in the last 2 finals it felt like we had zero luck.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    It wasn't a question of talent to play, it was fitness. It was Stephen's Day when he last played the minutes he would have needed to if he came on for Ryan in the final.

    He was out with an ankle injury so it takes a while to get back in shape, especially a player of his size and requirements on the pitch.

    For the RWC he had a full camp to get back to the required level.



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