Russia - threadbanned users in OP

I'm not pro or anti Russia. I just don't swallow the nonsense we've been fed for 2 years about this war, or it's origins either.

Then proceeds to recite literal kremlin talking points. You are 100% pro russian. No question about it.

Untrue.

There was widespread outrage from US citizens when news came back about atrocities their soldiers had committed in the Vietnam war. It was dwindling public support from this which is a large factor in why the US had to withdraw in the end.

By contrast, this kind of public protest is pretty much off limits in Russia and expressions of discontent about the war has led to mass arrests, all for the simple act of protesting.

When the Abu Ghraib torture came to light, there was also outrage and repercussions for the soldiers found to have been involved.

When Yevgheny Prigozhin bragged about a turncoat his men killed with a sledgehammer, he, well, it wasn't that incident which turned Putin against him, oh no. He was still bessie mates with Putin at this time. And remember those big demonstrations in Moscow about Bucha? Yeah, me neither.

All you're doing is using the oft-used fallacy that just because no side is perfect that they're as bad as each other. This is patently false. The Russians will bomb and blast Ukraine to bits if they see fit and can, with barely a peep about it back home. This is untrue of western countries, including the US. It's one of the things which places like Russia and China see as a weakness of the West; that its too tolerant and merciful. They (Russia and China et al don't give a fúck about human rights when it comes to opponents in combat. Due process? Just gets in the way.

I would have no qualms about admitting if I was pro-Russian, since I don't view this conflict the same way you likely do. But I'm not.

The fact that anyone who questions the official narrative gets labelled as such, is part of the reason why these stupid conflicts rage on for so long - they become ideological. Nobody can pass the picket line or get called some sort of heretic… well fcuk that, I'll speak my mind. If that makes me a kremlin bot or whatever the latest buzz word is, so be it.

We have been fed a bunch of nonsense about this conflict. The Russians have very little control over the narrative in the western media, so it has mostly been us feeding ourselves our own BS!

Would this not be better suited to a conspiracy theory forum? Unless you have solid evidence to back up this level of sophistication in propaganda? Russia are generally considered to be pretty useless at the information war, compared with the west. Again, it just comes off as boogie man under the bed type logic.

Putin told Carlson Ukraine is not a country. Your medal is well deserved.

Plenty of evidence out there.

https://www.voanews.com/amp/how-russia-s-disinformation-campaign-seeps-into-us-views-/7566503.html

And here you are feeding this forum a bunch of nonsense.

You may/ may not be pro-Russian. And everyone is entitled to their opinions. But they're also entitled to be called out on them for lack of factual context. And you've basically just been spouting a lot of generalisations which a few posters have picked apart with precision - you haven't even attempted to debate the issues with those posters, instead just raging against the posters who simply resort to throwing insults at you.

So you are entitled to your opinions, but you're not entitled to hold your opinions out as fact if you're not willing to debate the issues you raise.

@Poon Tang "The Russians are no more barbaric than the yanks in how they try to eliminate a threat, but they just do it in a different way."

Most armies are cruel to different degrees but Russia has been, and is, the most mendacious, brutal regime that ever existed on earth. I once read an account of Russia's brutality written in 1900. (Can't seem to locate it again.) They have been evil since Russia came into existence.

I kinda stopped checking this thread every day but then I see 50 posts in one day and my interest is renewed.

Do the bots not realise they are actually keeping this thread alive and keeping people interested in Ukraine which is the total opposite of what they are hoping to achieve?

In a weird way this could be good news if true.

Johnson was about to bring Israel and Ukraine standalone bills to the floor and vote separately but wasn't directly opposed to merging them. Which isn't great news since any new bill could spend months bouncing back and forward between the Senate and Congress over any amendment(And there'd probably be lots since Johnson would likely have poison pilled the bill). And in the worst case the Israel bill could slip through leaving Ukraine solo on the floor. At which point Johnson could ignore it. So if the MAGA Republicans are getting this riled about it then maybe the bill is decent for Ukraine?

Equally if he doesn't want to get ousted he may now be in the position of needing democrats to save him. Which will almost certainly come with the condition of putting the senate approved bill to the floor for a vote.

It's just such a brutally unfair world really.

Ukraine are increasingly having to give ground and intercept missiles with their hospitals/power plants and infrastructure. In Congress they're seemingly much less popular on the aid front than Israel. Despite Russia being the more clear and present danger to the western world, the UK, US, Jordan and Saudis are happy to close the skies over from Iranian drones as long as they aren't Russian.

Ukraine also may have to take the aid in the form of a loan if at all. And Israel doesn't for ….. reasons, despite not even needing any of it in the first place. And I've never historically been a huge critic of Israel honestly. It really is just such a bitter pill to swallow.

To anybody with a smidgeon of sense, humanity and perceptiveness, watching Russian representatives and propagandists present their point of view arouses only derision, horror and repugnance. They condemn themselves out of their own mouths. It speaks to the ignorant, blinkered and primitive nature of the MAGA faction in American politics that they are one of the few groups (along with the compromised, bribed and fascist-leaning in the EU) in the western world to swallow these rants, fantasies and threats hook, line and sinker.

The only sort of interest in Ukraine that would make any substantive difference to the outcome of this war, would be if more westerners were interested in grabbing a gun and signing up for the Ukrainian armed forces… save for that level of interest, Ukraine are doomed to lose this thing!

Not really. It only keeps them in the fight. To truly have a good chance of winning, they need much more manpower.