Peugeot 5008 Wet Belt Issue and Warranty

yupyaboyo · 10-10-2023 9:25am #1

Hi All,

Would love some feedback on the following warranty issue!

Background to the story;

Purchased new Peugeot in 2020 5008 petrol 1.2 puretech
Had to be returned after the first month due to an issue with the oil and engine fault which was fixed immediately and no other issues since
Each year, the service light would go off and the car was serviced by a local independent garage, standard oil & oil filter replacement

Issue;

In 2023, driving along the motorway, the car lost acceleration, an engine oil pressure error appeared and I had to pull over. Upon restarting the car, the issue was solved and I was able to reach my destination. This happened maybe two times before ending up with a permanent orange engine fault which stated it needed immediate repair!

This is where the fun begins!

Dropped the car into a local Peugeot dealer who has confirmed the issue is with the wet belt, based on other forums, seems to a known issue with these cars! This is not the dealer who originally supplied and fixed the car as we have moved location.

Current Situation;

Local dealer is questioning the service history, since the invoices are just showing oil and oil filters but no part numbers
There is a question mark over the first service as I cant confirm the mileage but the garage invoice is dated within the 12 months of buying the car
Car was serviced each year when the car indicator alerted me, service is required before 15km or within 12 months

My problem is, the local dealer is questioning the history and the mileage! Thus they are not pushing for the warranty to cover the huge cost but rather it will be charged as a retail job! Peugeot Ireland are saying I have to deal with the local dealer so they are of no help to me!

I dont know enough about cars but can the dealer not see when the car was serviced? When the service indicator was reset? Something to show it was done?

Your thoughts/feedback are welcome! I'm not happy to pay the retail cost of the job especially when its a known issue with the cars. These are garages I've gone to for years with both old and new cars. I'm annoyed since this is a known issue and I've also found out, cars serviced by Peugeot have also ran into this wet belt issue.

John

GustavoFring · 10-10-2023 9:36am

What you need ideally is a detailed invoice showing the part number/spec of the oil and filters used by the independent garage.

To be honest if you can’t confirm mileage you can’t really expect another garage or manufacturer to stand over the car. You’re probably best getting as much detail as you can from the garage that was doing the servicing. On a new car you need to keep the records for warranty purposes

Birka · 10-10-2023 10:20am

The spec of the oil used is critical in this case as the belt deterioration is related to additives in the oil and other contaminants which are by-products of combustion. If you can prove that the oil used for every change was to Peugeot's spec then you would have a stronger legal case in terms of warranty, especially if you can prove mileage for the first service but it sounds like you're going to have a bit of a battle with them. That's par for the course with warranty claims when servicing has been done outside the dealer network, unfortunately. Everyone says that the Block Exemption Regulation keeps warranty intact and that's true in a legal sense but it can often be problematic when you're claiming a warranty fix.

If the subsequent services were at 15,000 km intervals and at consistent intervals then it should be reasonably easy to infer the mileage for the first service. Does the original garage not have a mileage record on their system?

User1998 · 10-10-2023 10:40am

Theres no real way to prove what mileage the car was serviced at. Anyone can reset a service indicator, it doesn’t prove that the car was actually serviced. And I’m not sure they’d even have access to see when the indicator was reset.

sumo12 · 10-10-2023 12:03pm

Ok, there's lot to unpackage here...

Under block exemption rules you are perfectly entitled to have your car serviced outside of the brand dealer network. But the onus is 100% on you (and your independent) to prove what oil & parts were used and when the services were done. If you can't do that, then the manufacturer does not have to honour warranty. Furthermore, you have no business relationship with the main dealer so they will feel no obligation to fight your corner - you didn't want their help when you needed the car serviced so you can't expect their help now.

Secondly, a 2020 vehicle is likely to be outside of Peugeot warranty now. Let me explain - the warranty is 5 years, the first 3 is manufacturer or "legal" warranty (covered by block exemption rules) Years 4 and 5 are effectively goodwill warranty given by local distributor or the manufacturer. You are probably now in year 4. You haven't generated any goodwill with the dealer or brand because you have chosen to service the vehicle outside their network.

In terms of repairing the vehicle, based on the evidence you've provided, you are going to be paying for it. There is no way of telling from the vehicle when it was serviced or when the service light was reset.

kirving · 10-10-2023 12:06pm

This is the issue which with going to a third party for service, on a warrantied car.

Even if the local garage did everything to the letter, they are far less likely to keep records than a main dealer. It's now up to you to prove it.

Yes, there is an EU law to allow this route, as there should be, but to be fair to Peugeot, they have no way to tell that it was done properly.

Some (I imagine most) manufacturers will sell access to their service manuals via a subscription service. If your local mechanic could show that they do pay for access to Peugeots version, or have access via another official source, it might help you case in showing that it was done properly.

It's no proof of course, but right now you have very little else.

Also, try the original deal you bought from if you can, they might be more amenable to helping you if they thought there was a potential of another sale.

I genuinely don't mean to be cynical, but right now, you're going to a dealer whom you have no history with, probably never spent any money with, and you're asking them to fight your case with Peugeot's warranty department. I got similar treatment from BMW lately too, they don't want the headache.

User1998 · 10-10-2023 12:12pm

Definitely don’t let Peugeot charge you for the work. If they won’t honour the warranty then go elsewhere, you’ll most likely get it done for half the price. The same way you’ve been getting half price servicing.

sumo12 · 10-10-2023 12:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218113#Comment_121218113

That's quite a distorted logic, but everyone is entitled to maintain their car and spend their money as they see fit!

mickdw · 10-10-2023 12:21pm

Dealers can be hit and miss.

I forked out for a new Audi years back and my supplying dealer refused window regulator good will dispite it being a known fault.

Rang dealer in next county who I'd never used and got the parts without question for quarter of usual price.

yupyaboyo · 10-10-2023 12:36pm

This is great help! I took my eye off the ball with the service history!

So I now have mileage and part numbers for 2nd and 3rd service. First service is a disaster, the garage have the original invoice only showing oil and oil filter work but no mileage and no part numbers. They claim there is possibly a sticker in the window which I need to investigate since the car is at the dealership and I dont remember the different stickers on the window!

You should be able to infer the mileage from the first service is under/around 15k as the 2nd service is showing under 30k when it was serviced! And the first service also shows the work being completed within the 12months.

I'll keep pushing as there was goodwill on all parties involved and I'm more annoyed its a known issue that I have to pay for! Otherwise I would just pay and take the hit.

Thanks.

mickdw · 10-10-2023 1:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218144#Comment_121218144

How so?

If Peugeot are taking the mick re a known issue, why would you use them?

User1998 · 10-10-2023 1:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218577#Comment_121218577

And OP has avoided paying for main dealers servicing for 3 years, so why would they start using them now.

mickdw · 10-10-2023 2:34pm

Was just looking there. The wet belt is not a bad job to do on those.

Minimal stripping as timing belt jobs go so should not cost stupid money at all at a trusted independent garage.

Then you only have the concern over whether the issue is all down to belt.

Birka · 10-10-2023 4:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121218919#Comment_121218919

The problem is where the debris from the belt has ended up. The engine has an oil pressure fault so belt replacement isn't enough to resolve the issue.

In many previous cases, Peugeot have replaced the engine.

mickdw · 10-10-2023 4:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121219338#Comment_121219338

True but would it just be a case of a couple of flushes and drop the sump then hope for the best.

Hellrazer · 10-10-2023 6:05pm

It is a known issue with that engine but the fault is DIRECTLY related to the type of oil used.

It has to be a 0W30 - same engine is in the Opels that I have a had a LOT of experience with failures.

Most of the issues I ever saw was the wrong oil used - 5w30 or even 10w40 which is way too thick and usually serviced in independent garages.

OP - you need to find what grade was used. If he used any old 5w30 or 10w40 you are out of luck - Having dealt with Opel / Peugeot warranty departments (they are the same people now) you wont get any goodwill unless you can prove the right oil was used.

However if you can prove 100% that the right oil was used then you might get somewhere.

I suspect that your mechanic didnt know it was 0w30 and put 5w30 in it and thats what caused the failure. The belt is supposed to be inspected at every service through the oil filler cap and thickness measured using a special tool.

Had it been serviced in a main dealer this would have taken place and potential failure fixed as a recall before it completely failed.

cpoh1 · 10-10-2023 6:28pm

The mind boggles how you could buy a brand new car for ~40k and look to save maybe a 100 bucks a year servicing it at a local garage.

mickdw · 10-10-2023 6:55pm

I wouldn't even guarantee main dealers using right oil in every circumstance. The benefit I suppose is at least they cannot fault themselves when things go wrong.

Hellrazer · 10-10-2023 7:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121220233#Comment_121220233

This exactly. If they put the wrong oil in it and you have a full dealer history you`ll get your warranty - no questions even asked.

Moral of the story - get your car serviced in the dealer network while its inside warranty - dont try to save a few quid - at the very least get an oil change done. The distributor / manufacturer will use any excuse to not pay out on warranty claims and its been the same as long as Ive been in the trade.

yupyaboyo · 11-10-2023 9:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121220101#Comment_121220101

Agreed, we are two hours from local dealership, primary and only car, three kids and required for work! Had been using this garage for years with both old and new cars, never had an issue until now! From speaking with the garage, all correct components were used but we need to proove it now.

Hellrazer · 11-10-2023 9:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121222783#Comment_121222783

It should be easy to prove if your local mechanic keeps his supplier invoices or has a trade account with the factors he bought the parts from.

The warranty department should accept them as proof - I still doubt he used the right oil though as this issue is directly related to the grade of oil used.

Most indys have either a 208 litre barrel of their common grade oil or bulk in a tank. From experience most dont buy one off gallon cans for single jobs unless they are really , really good at being meticulous when servicing.

yupyaboyo · 16-11-2023 2:52pm

A positive update! After a long road, the respective garages were able to provide an invoice with the mileage and the different oil and oil filter specifications used. Peugeot have honoured the warranty and covered the cost of the repair.

There is no issue with the service from the respective garages, its how they detail their invoices that needs to be improved. For example, each invoice needs the VIN/Chassis number, oil specification and grade and mileage. Once these are specified and in some cases you might need proof i.e. printout from supplier/trade account, then you should be covered!

alan partridge aha · 16-11-2023 3:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121375951#Comment_121375951

That is good news, congrats. If it wasn't covered I'd say the bill would have been huge.

medic112 · 28-11-2023 10:25pm

Nice out come, hard work certainly paid off.

My 181 5008 1.2 auto currently at 63k did have the oil light flashing intermittently over a few months last year (flick on for a second or two once a week or so) reported it to the dealer so when booking the service back in aug they stated that the belt & oil pump were to be replaced under warranty/recall. This was completed & a few days later I noticed a small oil leak, sump plug not fitted right, this was sorted. Had to put a litre of oil in after a month & approx 1100km & this happened again after another 1100 or so km. So went back to the dealer & they put a ‘ticket’ in for repairs? So last week I got the call back saying they’ll replace the engine.

I suppose this has to be done, but what does it involve, a whole engine? or bits? How would this affect say trading in/selling or a warranty.

appreciate any replies.

Birka · 28-11-2023 11:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430924#Comment_121430924

Sadly, engine replacement is common as there are issues not just with the wet belt but with low speed pre-ignition (LSPI). This was partly remedied with some software updates but can still be an issue with earlier engines. The jury is out on later engines but time will tell.

In theory, a new engine would (mostly) address both issues but there are fundamental design flaws that may well cause issues in the future. Resale values are strongish but it'd be worth considering selling while the new engine is fresh. No rush, next couple of years given your mileage.

Ideally, trade it into a dealer with multiple franchises including a Peugeot one as they can't reasonably question the quality of Peugeot's warranty progamme

yupyaboyo · 22-01-2024 4:09pm

An update to the original post that started this thread! Three weeks after getting the wet belt replaced, covered by warranty, the engine fault appeared again! Noooooooo...to a cut a long story short! New engine replacement needed! From speaking to different parties, they dont know if a new engine is required until they first do the wet belt replacement! Have been told, by a sales person, that there should be no issue with the resale value since its a new engine! Thats a problem for another day!

yupyaboyo · 16-04-2024 3:56pm

New engine replaced…took close to 3months due to a component not being available!

Again, a long story short…two weeks after collecting car with new engine, the same engine fault appeared again!

Car dealership said it needed a software update! Another 1/2 day to get that done…a month later…going strong! Please please please let this be the end of it…

alan partridge aha · 16-04-2024 6:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027095#Comment_122027095

Get rid of that junker before it goes again.

hellodear · 01-07-2024 12:20pm

Hi,

I have recently encountered a similar issue and have handed over the car at Peugeot workshop to investigate. They are performing some checks and I have not yet been provided with any timeframe even after 1 week.

Can I please ask how long they took to return your car? Was the car with them for a long while and you weren't allowed to drive?

Anything I can do to get them to expedite? In case you can share any tips or suggestions based on your experience, I'll be greatful.

Thanks!

yupyaboyo · 29-07-2024 3:26pm

@hellodear To replace the wet belt was completed within the week of dropping off the car. Replacing the engine took just under 3 months due to a missing part but luckily we were offered a replacement car! I understand they have to do the wet belt before the engine is replaced. Car is driving fine but you are always thinking it's going to show the error fault again when you are accelerating!

To expedite the process, shout and scream but be careful as I think each garage provides a certain amount of goodwill so there is no obligation to provide a replacement car!

Sorry to hear this is happening.

Peugeot 5008 Wet Belt Issue and Warranty

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