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Endodontist Root Canal

  • 17-04-2024 10:06pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,260 ✭✭✭


    I have to have a Root Canal procedure on a molar tooth. My dentist said he would refer me to an Endodontist who would be in touch. They have just quoted €1,175. It will be performed in one visit, under local anaesthetic. It much more than I thought.

    I was expecting €600-800 but this seems a lot. Any views on the quote? Going to Budapest would make sense at these prices. I lived in Switzerland for a while and the Swiss go there for major work due to sky high prices there.

    I had emergency treatment on it so done if the work is already done (temp filling in place and infection treated)



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,985 ✭✭✭Marty Bird


    I paid €850 for a root canal in 2021 was done over two visits.

    🌞6.02kWp⚡️3.01kWp South/East⚡️3.01kWp West



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 736 ✭✭✭Kurooi


    I recently paid €1100 for a root canal in Ireland, this was though 2 visits with microscope, 3 scans . Difficult job similar to yourself my usual dentist decided to refer me out to someone that does these specifically.

    But that case was special. I've normally paid €600-800 range for root canals as you expected. The regular stuff. I'm a bit surprised it's just one visit for you even with the infection cleared.

    I'm just a regular Joe by the way, not a dentist or anything related.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 945 ✭✭✭Luna84


    I just got a molar pulled two weeks ago. Best option I thought. Wasn't too bad kind of like getting a large tattoo where you are glad when it's finished.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Any I've got were two visits.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭dublin49


    i paid 800 this January and 800 for crown , ouch



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,260 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Thanks

    I have not been told it requires special treatment. The person that phoned me was going on about their experience, equipment including microscopes (which you expect them to have). I just said, I expect you have the skills and technical equipment.

    I asked for a written quote and it confirmed one visit. I expected two. There is no mention of a filling. Maybe I have to return to my own dentist for that.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I had a root canal done in Ireland in a very reputable dentist for 800e. That was it. No extra charges. They drill into the tooth, extract the root and pulp, bleach the cavity, then place a filling and your done.

    Root canal might have been a big deal years ago, its no big deal now. Wisdom teeth out is 10x worse.

    I had 2 follow up calls to see how I was. 5 min walk away if there was an issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    Regarding the cost, tax relief is usually allowed in respect of Endodontics. For anyone paying income tax amounts to a significant reduction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,260 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Was that one visit and done by Endodontist ? From my research, an Endodontist seems to be the best way to go. They specialise, so more routine to them.

    Consensus so far is €1,175 is expensive unless it's specialised or difficult. I was not told it was either of those.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah. It was not a ☺ dentist chain.

    Dentist appointment, followed by a 45 min, one and done session with a root canal specialist.

    BUT I paid 800e in 2020, before all of the stuff that pushed prices up. 1200 might be OK for here.

    What do i know🤐



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,260 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    That chain with a happy name has different prices across sites. None are close to what the price I was quoted. 375 increase would exceed inflati by a lot Would you mind sending the name of where you got yours by PM.

    Glad the pain is gone as it was intense and I was bushed with the infection.



  • Registered Users Posts: 409 ✭✭holliehobbie


    You also get 20% tax relief on root canals done by a regular dentist.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It has nothing to do with inflation, the other poster’s root canal was done by a Dentist, you were quoted for treatment by a specialist Endodontist. You weren’t told it was difficult by the Endodontist, but you were told it would need a specialist referral by your Dentist, because it is difficult.

    Endodontists, like other service providers set their fees based on costs, time, skill set, experience etc. The price you were quoted is likely the flat fee charged for treatment of that type of tooth. And is pretty much what Endodontists charge, you will have to consider paying for the specialist treatment, looking for a less expensive alternative provider but with the risk of a reduced prognosis (€800 may be cheaper for treatment, but it will be money gone if the treatment fails, your Dentist’s records will record that you were advised/referred to a Specialist to have it treated), or, you can consider alternative treatment options.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,260 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Thanks for your reply. That poster said it was not done by their dentist. It was a root canal specialist. I got that information from asking if it was a dentist or a Endodontist. From the reply, I assumed it was an Endodontist not a dentist.

    How can you say it's a dentist from the same facts? I was not told it was difficult by my dentist. They just referred me to a specialist.

    The Endodontist clinic says this will take an hour. So, €1,175 reflects an hour of time, skill, experience at this practice? Thats a lot of cost for one hour..

    However, you say I may also get that same time skill and experience from another similarly qualified and experienced Endodontist for less. Is that not the point of the post? Other qualified Endodontists charge less for the same routine procedure (for an Endodontist). This quote appears high, and you seem to agree with that.

    You kind of make it out to be some endodontists are/may be better than others. I have no guarantee of the level of competence before hand. Everyone, including my own Dentist can be informed afterwards if there are no/are complications. As a member of the public we can't know what we are paying for, whether it's €800 or €1,175. What I do know is cheapest is not always worst, and dearest is not always best.

    I am going to contact my own dentist and ask about the quote and for another referral. I cant just pay out that sort of money and not be certain the quote is justified. It does not appear to be the going rate.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That is around the going rate, all Endodontists do not charge the same for the same treatment as that may lead to an accusation of cartelling. But God bless Mary Harney, she made it a legal requirement for Dentists to display prices, which most now do on websites, so it is very simple for both patients, and practitioners to see what the going rate is by spending a few minutes online.



  • Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭toothy


    Registered just for this

    Had similar experience last year, my then dentist botched a filing and damaged my tooth in the process which then shattered one evening while having something to eat.

    A very pretty younger blonde lady she had taken over the practice and just wasn't as skilled as the man who had retired, I obviously did not know this at the time.

    I went back into her and she denied all responsibility for it and used air to confirm root and nerve were exposed.

    Her 'solution' was to refer me to a traveling orthodontist who came to town once a month and worked out of a rented room in another practice. For the root canal work he wanted €1,200 and €500 for the crown thereafter

    I rang the orthodontist anyway and asked some questions about infection and where would I go if I had any problems, to which they said they'll be no problems,

    But what if I do, oh you can go to your own dentist, but she referred me to you, can I come to your main practice, X doesn't have a practice

    You need to make an appointment as X is going back to India for 2 months

    So what happens if I have a problem while he's in India, oh you won't but how will you know there's no infection, oh there won't be, you can always book another appointment when he comes back from India

    I didn't like any of this and sure enough, tooth went ballistic and I ended up in Dental hospital

    With all the pain and trauma I went fook this I'm going to an old white protestant male dentist

    He did the root canal over 5 visits, an extra visit because there was and extra root and an infection flare up, it cost 150 each time and included the crown at the end



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,906 ✭✭✭Zardoz


    1175 euro , thats extortion.

    I had 3 of them down by a specialist 10 years ago, cost 700 per tooth at the time and I thought that was expensive then.

    Everyone of the root canals was a failure from day one, untold pain.

    I dont think they work well on molar teeth, they are ok on teeth with less roots.

    You'd get an implant for similar price now, thats what I ended up getting, the root canals were a complete waste of time and money.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 945 ✭✭✭Luna84


    I'm going to an old white protestant male dentist

    Where do you live? White protestant?



  • Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭toothy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 536 ✭✭✭Infoseeker1975


    I had one in Nov 2023, referred to endodontist, cost was €900 & it was completed over 2 trips. I have private health insurance but it did not cover this so all I could recover was €180.

    After this; 2 options → get rid of tooth or get a crown, I went for the crown and this will cost around €650, again this is 2 trips as the first one gets the setting for the crown which is produced by a lab, turnaround time is 3 weeks - I am at the last step now!!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,260 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Thanks. Its interesting to have that perspective. I know its better to keep the tooth, but extraction and crown you would be done with it. I had no idea it would be less than the root canal.

    My quote makes no ref. to a filling or a crown. I know the latter would be extra but former should be included ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,260 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    I dont follow the 2 options. Did the tooth crack/break ruling out the filling ?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Root canal treatment involves removal of the centre part of the tooth leaving it weaker after the root canal than it was before. This leaves the tooth more susceptible to fracture after a root canal if it is just restored with a filling. A crown is advisable to protect the tooth from fracture.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,260 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    That makes sense. Strangely, none of this information has been shared with me by either the dentist or even more strangely, the specialist endodontist. There is no mention of filling or crown (I know a crown is extra). I find it bizarre I get a detailed breakdown/ pitch about how skilled they are and how amazing their equipment is, and nothing about filling or crown



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The endodontist hasn’t seen you yet, the Dentist doesn’t yet know how much of the tooth will remain after the root canal is completed and whether a crown will be necessary. Though certainly the possibility/advice to have one should have been discussed.

    Kaisr, typically the Endodontist advises when discussing the treatment with you whether a filling/crown is indicated. It will be up to you to decide if you want a crown. A root canal treatment attends to the pain/infection, a crown on the other hand attends to the structure of the tooth.

    On re-reading your op, I unfortunately missed the part where you said you had emergency treatment on it and the infection treated. This suggests your dentist has done the first stage of the root canal treatment and removed the nerves before placing a temporary filling, is this correct? If so, that is the first stage/visit of the root canal treatment and the Dentist would have been able to asses how difficult a root filling it is, whether it needs a Specialist to complete it, and also explains why there is only one visit with the Endodontist. The root canal is being done in two visits, the first was with your own Dentist on emergency.

    As a dentist, I agree root canal with an Endodontist can be prohibitively expensive, I wish they were cheaper, but unfortunately they aren’t and these guys are booked up for months, so they obviously have patients willing to pay it. A root canal, even when done by a Specialist is still considerably cheaper and less invasive than an implant, so if you can hold onto your tooth, you should strongly consider it. A Dentist may be able to do it cheaper, maybe even nearly as good a job as an Endodontist, but it will not be done to the same standard and you may have to wait years to find out the difference, or it may happen straight away. If a root canaled tooth lasts for example 10 years, how many take aways, or haircuts would you have during that period?

    When it comes down to it, no one can force you to have the treatment, or to pay for the highest standard of treatment you can get, you may decide to lose the tooth or have a less qualified person do it, I’ve had a couple of these myself unfortunately, and even though I have colleagues to are very good at doing root canals, mine have been done by an Endodontist.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 752 ✭✭✭PmMeUrDogs


    I paid 4,000 for two last year, both with crowns.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,260 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    @Dav010

    Yes I had emergency treatment but not with my dentist. I am not sure the emergency treatment went to nerve removal. They just drilled, put in some meds and temp filled to deal with infection/pain. I was hoping the fee for the root canal would reflect that some work already done and infection cleared up.

    There is a bit more to how I ended up needing emergency treatment. You may be interested to read..

    Last December or early Jan this year, I felt something was not right with upper tooth (not pain, just a feeling pressure/discomfort/awareness of the tooth, only when chewing) and made appointment to see my dentist. Looking back, I was also feeling quite tired all the time. I attended in late Jan. They quickly said the problem was an old filling in lower jaw that should be replaced. Unfortunately, I did not say, no it's the upper and they never checked around or tapped that tooth. Just latched in to the older filling as the cause.

    On leaving I realised my error in not saying hang on, it's the upper. It may not have changed the outcome but would have resulted in less pain and other issues for me.

    I made an appointment to have lower tooth refilled two months later and planned to tell the dentist then the problem was the upper tooth, and they need to look at it. I never got to sit back in that chair.

    A week before that appointment (almost two months later) the upper tooth began to throb for no obvious reason. I left two messages over two days for the dentist saying first, I was in a lot of pain, second extreme pain. I got no replies to my messages. It then got even worse. I had not slept properly in 2 days and even strong painkiller were not working. Anti inflammatory meds (vitafen) I had left over were much better. My whole upper jaw and cheek on one side was sore, my ear was aching and tender, and my sinus was all blocked up /infected. I also had a bad sinus infection in Feb. I was exhausted all the time. Not like me.

    Now I think all that was linked to the tooth. Since the antibiotics for the infection, I feel so much better and not exhausted all the time.

    I know it can be difficult to find /diagnose an abscess.. At the time I was very unhappy that having attended in Jan with a problem, it was totally overlooked, and ultimately caused me a lot of other problems. Its probably just bad luck.

    Post edited by Kaisr Sose on


  • Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭toothy


    That's quite an indictment of the skill level of dentists. The story was always Irish dentists were inferior to their contemporaries. What I never expected was for an actual dentist to confirm it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You understand that there is a distinction between a General Dentist and a Specialist in a particular discipline of dentistry? It would be inconceivable that after four additional years of post graduate study, that there wouldn’t be a higher skill level in endodontics, what would be the point of post graduate studies/Specialist registers if there wasn’t?. If I can use an analogy which may make it simpler for you to understand, if you have a heart condition, just because you see a cardiologist isn’t a reflection on the ability of your GP.

    Incidentally, an orthodontist straightens teeth, and the gender/colour/religion of the dentist has no bearing on their ability.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,260 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    @Dav010

    Thats a good analogy on the GP and Cardiologist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    I'm being quoted that similar high rate from most endodontists.

    Includes a "core" (unsure what that is), and does not include the crown, which apparently the referring dentist does.

    My concern is, in spite of the specialization and money involved, especially with a molar, there's the possibility it may still be unsuccessful; I don't know the percentages, but I'm guessing attending an endodontist gives a better outlook.

    This "get it done in one season" versus two seasons doesn't make sense to me, I wouldn't like to think they're going to rush the procedure.

    There's an endodontist practicing from the Northbrook clinic, Dr John Lorden, similar prices, anyone know anything about him?

    And a dude in Synge St, Dr John Dermody?

    Experiences?

    Post edited by Sugar_Rush on

    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,670 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    I have two root canals, both done in one session each, by an endo. I think my first one is coming up on 18 years now, without issue but it was crowned right after,

    For northbrook, I’ve no experience with him, but I and my wife has experience with northbrook in general and it’s always been positive, and it seems he’s been there for a quite a while.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    What teeth were the root canals performed on? Molars?

    When you say "crowned right after" as in, the same session?

    Endodontists as I understand, just do the root canal and "core", which means the patient is left without a tooth until they get it crowned?

    I checked out the northbrook clinic as, with yourself, good experience with their maxillofacial surgeon before. But of course I can't necessarily infer the absolute credibility of all their other practitioners based on that.

    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,670 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    As in a couple of weeks after for the crown.

    A core is normally to build up any missing tooth mass, it’s a special material. I assume it’s needed for a crown to attach to if there’s not much tooth left due to a fracture, but will let one of the dentists here confirm.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This is correct, teeth which need root canal treatments are inherently compromised, they wouldn’t need root canal treatment if there weren’t. After the RCT is completed, the teeth should have a crown placed over it to protect it (and your investment). The core is a platform, which usually involves placing posts in the canals of the tooth to a depth of at least 5mm, and which will support/retain the crown.

    Some choose not to have crowns placed on teeth after RCT, but if the tooth later cracks, that’s when people realise the importance of the crown, and wish they had followed their Dentist/Endodontist advice to get one.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    Does every root canal have a core/post (what's the difference?) placed in it, to facilitate a crown at a later time?

    One would imagine it may be good practice to do so.

    So if someone went to the dentist and got a root canal, at what point does the crown come into the picture?

    Cause I was onto the secretary of that dude Dr John Lordon in Northbrook clinic and she was like, "bruh, we don't do crowns here, only root canals".

    So you leave after getting your root canal with what, a core/post sticking out of your tooth?

    I'd hardly think they put a composite filling on it?

    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    I must also say, I find this whole process somewhat traumatizing.

    I take pretty damn good care of my health, and was SHOCKED to see a big ass nasty cavity in one of my molars at my most recent check up.

    The grief some patients undergo over their teeth, one thing goes wrong, one oversight;

    It has the potential to really have consequence in time, in a year, in two years, in five years etc.

    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The dentist puts in the post. You get a post if the dentist feels whatever he's putting on top needs extra support and anchoring.

    They drill out the root and fill it, if theres a problem and if it's likely to become a problem in the future. Especially if you're doing something expensive on top like a crown.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    They usually have a gap between getting the root canal and filling it to let it recover and make sure it doesn't flare up afterwards.

    Then there's a gap before the Dentist prepares the top for the crown, then they send off to get it made and fit it when it comes back.

    Tooth doesn't have to be gone to have root canal. You might not need a crown....or you might..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Good experiences in both.

    But there's no guarantees with medicine or dentistry. Nature isn't that simplistic.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    Correct me here if I'm mistaken;

    But I understand root canals can be performed in one sitting now due to more advanced technology (something to do with microscopes) being able to address the nerve treatment process more quickly?

    If a molar being treated, by example, has multiple nerves, an endodontist may not be able to treat it in its entirety in one session.

    But now a days, due to technology advances, they can simply get it done more quickly and easily.

    Dr Lordan's clinic mentioned their treatment comes with a core built into their price (I assume this means "post and core") - which very much sounds to me like they "fill it in immediately" and it's all done and dusted in one session??

    If a tooth gets a core, what happens, do they put a temporary crown over until the permanent one is fabricated?

    i.e. if you get a core, you're then more or less obligated to get a crown?

    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I’m going to correct you because you are mistaken , whether it can be finished in one appointment or two depends on the symptoms and condition of the tooth/pathology.

    Experience of your posts on other threads leads me to conclude you cannot be helped with any meaningful explanation. Suffice to say, you will be advised by the clinician what is the best course of action for you, not for anyone else.

    Stop asking for clinical analysis and advice for what you need, whatever advice is offered by others is based on experience of their circumstances, not yours.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Never had a RCT in one sitting. I have had RCT that didn't have a crown and it lasted 20+ yrs.

    Everyone's teeth are different. Its not something I'd be rushing or 2nd guessing an expert with the first thing you found on YouTube.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭Sugar_Rush


    Cool. I was just curious why most endodontic sites are claiming they can finish a root canal in one session.

    PS - emphasis on, "correct me if I'm wrong".

    Post edited by Sugar_Rush on

    In physics we trust....... (as insanely difficult to decipher as it may be)



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