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Journalism and Cycling 2: the difficult second album

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    The legal industry does not exist in a vacuum. It is a tool of the population. There's no obligation to engage a lawyer. And when you do engage a lawyer, you instruct them not vice versa. A bit like the report in the paper today about the woman who rolled her car into a ditch with her child in it, smelled of alcohol when pulled out by the Gardai/ emergency services, failed a blood sample test but still decided that she should explore every loophole to avoid being punished. The Gardai it seems didn't prosecute her case properly (failed to serve a certain form) and she got off after getting her lawyer to plead that 'defence'. You can't pick and chose what laws are important and which aren't. A criminal conviction is a serious matter and the legislation should reflect that. Its a very prescribed system for good reason. Again, my point is simply that when I read a report like that (and as for court reports - its not like they report the multiples of convictions that are secured, half the time just the headline grabbing ones that aren't) my reaction isn't "this is the fault of lawyers" its "what sort of person choses not to accept their punishment when they know that they're guilty of an offence which could have had much more tragic consequences".



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,516 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    An avid Wicklow sportsman contemplating giving up his passion for cycling after a hit-and-run incident has called for cooperation between people driving cars and those riding bicycles as he urged both parties to remember “we all have families to get home to”.

    https://m.independent.ie/regionals/wicklow/wicklow-district/wicklow-cyclist-involved-in-hit-and-run-reminds-road-users-we-all-have-families-to-get-home-to/a1230197327.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,681 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    I would say it's getting near time that everyone who takes to the roads on a bicycle should have one of these:

    https://cycliq.com/bike-cameras/



  • Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭LeoD


    The brakes and steering wheel will still function! And if people for some reason insisted on being allowed to break the speed limit to avoid a collision, they could easily override the system for a short period but an alarm would sound so that would soon be so irritating that exceeding the speed limit is simply too uncomfortable. I'd love it if some company produced a few prototypes just to see how they would get on rather than wasting everyone's time pursuing their driverless car fantasies out of Shannon.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Our fleet vehicles beep if you go over 120kmph (based on speedo only, not on location), it would not be difficult to integrate that into mapping services for most modern cars.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,956 ✭✭✭cletus


    This would be fantastic, particularly if the manage to join up with existing routes, greenways etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭LeoD


    All new cars introduced in the EU since last July are meant to have Intelligent Speed Assist installed but I've heard so little about it I'm going to assume the systems are so soft touch as to be almost unnoticeable and therefore almost pointless. https://road-safety-charter.ec.europa.eu/resources-knowledge/media-and-press/intelligent-speed-assistance-isa-set-become-mandatory-across



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,974 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    I've been in hire cars that have it and all it does is beep a couple of times and flash a message on the dash if you go over the speed limit. The beep is a lot easier to ignore than the seatbelt beeping noise, more like the beep you get if there's a frost warning or you're getting low on fuel. From the webpage above:

    The first two feedback options do not directly intervene but only provide warnings (first optic and if no response from the driver, a delayed acoustic/vibrating warning), which have to be as short as possible in duration to avoid potential annoyance of the driver.

    Useless in other words.



  • Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭LeoD


    Working as designed. From the commission's adoption doc:

    Car manufacturers don't want to annoy speeding/dangerous drivers.

    https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-say/initiatives/12222-Vehicle-safety-technical-rules-test-procedures-for-intelligent-speed-assistance_en



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    No more than speeding drivers want to be annoyed I'd guess. I've a function in my car where I can set a speed limit and if I exceed it it beeps. It will only beep once. I use it to ensure I don't accidentally get a fine if driving in a 100 zone - N11 perfect example. It's very handy. I wonder how many drivers bother and how many just do the "slow down from 120 when approaching a speed van hot spot and then accelerate off again" to avoid fines?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    I use Waze via Apple Carplay - has all speed limits programmed into the maps, and gives an alert if you break the limit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Must check that out - never heard of it before, sounds fierce handy!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,212 ✭✭✭JMcL


    I just don't get this "state bad but ah sure it's big tech so what do you expect" idea. The amount of spying carried out by Google and their bedfellows is utterly shocking, and you might think you're aware of it, but I doubt it. I highly recommend Shoshana Zuboff’s book "The Age of Surveillance Capitalism" which is a shocking and depressing read. My day-to-day involves being very aware of GDPR, moving data around and processing it etc., so I try to keep on top of it, but the lengths they go to glean information is staggering.

    Now as to remits. Big tech is beholden only to their shareholders, and will constantly push at the boundaries of what is legal and frequently overstep that - making for frequent nice little earners for the Office of Data Protection. Were the state collecting this data on the other hand they'd be bound by the statute book (yes, I know they could overstep that, but if they're prone to that, then there are going to be worse problems in the land).

    The goal here is to change driver behaviour, and it's not clear to me what could constitute a carrot, but a stick in the form of fear of punishment is obvious. TBH, as others have suggested storing this on a black box on the vehicle is probably preferable as it it's aggregated centrally, there's a cost to installing and maintaining that infrastructure, not to mention keeping it secure (I'd be much more worried about Russian/Chinese/Nork/whatever bad guys that the State). There could then be random breathalyser style spot checks to see if somebody has been naughty in the past hour. This could include detection of close passes since a lot of newer cars will be fitted with lidar - especially the more expensive variety that are frequently the culprits. Then if there's a complaint, a Guard can go out during their 30 minute road policing section of their shift and ask to see the evidence. This I think would be a game changer, and not expensive to implement moving forward.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    And, to use the logic so often thrown in the face of cyclists who question the benefit to society of prioritising the promotion of compulsory hi viz and helmet wearing over responsible driving - if it would save even one life, if it would make the roads safer, why wouldn't you? Where is the downside?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,516 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The downside is that you are placing the responsibility for road safety on the victim. It suddenly becomes the responsibility of the cyclist to be seen or be hit - not the responsibility of the driver to actually watch the road properly.

    As for helmet, again it has been mentioned on boards so many times previously but if you missed it: even the manufacturers state that helmets are for short low speed falls, not for when you receive a smack from a someone driving a two tonne lump of metal. They might help but surely it would be better if the person driving was doing so in such a manner that they didn't drive into the person on the bike.
    There is also some reasearch that found that helmet usage encouraged drivers to drive more closely to cyclists when passing. Furthermore, it has been shown in places such as Australia that making helmet use mandatory reduces the number of people willing to cycle which has a negative impact on the health of society overall.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭Caquas


    More grief!

    A young woman knocked down by a lorry and killed in Dun Laoghaire. Such heartbreak for her family and friends.

    Her grandfather was Gus Martin, Professor of English at UCD and author of Soundings, the anthology that gave a generation of Irish people a love of poetry which even the Leaving Cert. could not destroy. Her great-grandfather was The O'Rahilly, who died during the Easter Rising.

    Seeing her picture and knowing her family background underlines the sense of loss with her whole life ahead of her.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2024/04/25/she-will-live-on-in-the-hearts-and-minds-of-her-many-family-and-friends-cyclist-killed-in-dun-laoghaire-crash-is-named/



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,105 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    That is so tragic, her whole life ahead of her and just started in film production. Ugh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Agree on all of that - I think you may have taken my post up wrong, or more likely I worded it badly. I wasn't defending the argument that if it even might make you safer why wouldn't you wear hi viz/ helmet… anticipating the 'but what about the costs' and 'nanny state' arguments I was trying to return that same 'logic' to make the point that if mandatory 'black boxes' in cars would make the roads safer, "why wouldn't you?". As long as the appropriate safeguards are there I can't see any real downside.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    I think you misunderstood the post you were replying to. They were effectively saying "everyone heckles cyclists to wear PPE using the logic that it might save one life" so why not apply that same logic to the car technology.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,516 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Yeah I see it now. I need to stop letting my work distract me when I'm on Boards



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,379 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    We really need to start calling out the residents and politicians that oppose every attempt at safe infrastructure. They have blood on their hands.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,379 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Yes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,212 ✭✭✭JMcL


    Not exactly current, but interesting that we're still talking about similar things 125 years later (should we just ditch the disc brakes and go back to tire brakes I wonder 🤔)



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,624 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Well there is an election coming up so they will be at the doorstep.

    Shane Ross was on the radio yesterday, not talking about cyclists but about motorists - his three principal messages were (i) its mostly down to excessive speed (which I'd be broadly agree with, though 'speed' goes hand in hand with 'entitlement', cant address one without touching the other) (ii) everyone is passing the buck on it, RSA saying its enforecement, gardai saying its the laws etc and (iii) that Fianna Fail and Fine Gael backbenchers are a big part of the problem, they wont do anything to antagonise their motorist electorate.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,351 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i might be more inclined to take that opinion seriously if the source wasn't shane ross.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,379 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    He's right, but if only he had been Minister of Transport for over 4 years… iirc his big thing was reduce the Blood Alcohol limit, when most people caught are multiples of the 80mg limit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,688 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    Do speed limits apply to bicyclists in Éire?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,242 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    no



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Let me take a wild guess - it's from the Daily Mail?



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