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Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,919 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Nice deflection, but I was talking about this particular Palestinian war crime which for some unknown* reason is somehow acceptable.

    *we all know the unknown reason.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,091 ✭✭✭Odhinn




  • Registered Users Posts: 82,375 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    you seem to be the one deflecting though since we haven’t yet determined it’s a war crime you’ve put the cart before the horse. The international courts that adjudicate these such matters will ask such questions, some of which courts Israel fails to even recognize!



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Israel uses cluster munitions which scatter a lot of booby traps. They have also used white phosphorous, another war crime. The purpose of the conventions is to explicitly prevent civillian casualties, something Israel doesn't even attempt, there being 28,000 killed so far.

    Targetting medical personnel is a war crime; foreign aid workers have observed that Israel does this to such an extent that locals help them change into plain clothes when they leave any place they have been working to avoid being taken out by Israeli snipers. Targetting aid workers is a war crime, you do remember the 7 foreigners who were deliberately targeted and murdered?

    It's safe to say that the Geneva conventions on war crimes are an infintessimaly small spec in Israel's rear view mirror.

    https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/10/commission-inquiry-collecting-evidence-war-crimes-committed-all-sides-israel

    Both Amnesty and the UN believe Israel have committed multiple war crimes at scale. They are Semitic Orcs, no better than the Slavic variety in Ukraine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,919 ✭✭✭Cordell


    You all seem to excuse Palestinians' war crimes because apparently "Amnesty and the UN believe Israel have committed multiple war crimes". Fine. Both sides are committing war crimes then, can we stop pretending that you don't just simply hate Israel?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 82,375 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    yawn. “YOU hate Israel. YOU like the terrorists!”

    Are they a signatory or not? Fancy thing to not adhere to these conventions or international law then cry foul when allegedly wronged.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I hate zionists. There are a lot of people in Israel appalled at what Netenyahu and his settler thugs are engaged in and I applaud them.

    Let's drop any pretense that you condemn or oppose war crimes committed by Israel and that you just hate Palestinians.

    Oh yeah, another war crime and frequently used tactic by Israel is collective punishment:

    "The only method that proved effective, not justified or moral but
    effective, when Arabs plant mines on our side [in retaliation]. If we try to
    search for the [particular] Arab [who planted mines], it has not value. But if
    we HARASS the nearby village . . . then the population there comes out against
    the [infiltrators] . . . and the Egyptian Government and the Transjordan
    Government are [driven] to prevent such incidents because their prestige is
    [assailed], as the Jews have opened fire, and they are unready to begin a war . .
    . the method of collective punishment so far has proved effective." (Righteous Victims,
    p. 275-276)



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,393 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    I have mentioned this elsewhere but did they pass a similar motion when Russia invaded Ukraine?

    They did not.

    So, why not?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,393 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    100% they shouldn't be getting involved.

    It's a complicated scenario already that few adults can comprehend.

    And the question is, who is going to "teach" them and what is the subject matter/curriculum going to be?

    As usual though NGO's and other interest groups seem to want to fit themselves into a space they don't belong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,393 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Yes, yes it is because there is a clear agenda behind it. You might agree with the agenda and work away, its your right as an adult to support whatever cause you want, but the school environment is not the place to start indoctrinating young kids about controversial topics of the day.

    If this goes ahead, should we allow a "Let's talk about Hamas, Iran and Israel" group to go into schools, with a pro-Israel point of view? I am sure you won't have an issue about that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,082 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I'm not sure that it is right to say few people can comprehend what is happening. We can all see what is happening in Gaza,it is not that complicated.

    Parents can complain to schools that include these discussions. The BDS lies in this space so of course they are going to get involved, no more then anti apartheid groups used to campaign against South Africa.



  • Registered Users Posts: 51,743 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0423/1445100-micheal-martin-middle-east/

    Great to see the Government calling it out for what it is. Late enough but still welcome -

    ''Tánaiste Micheál Martin has said it was "very difficult to comprehend" what he called the "barbarity" of Israel's bombing campaign in Gaza.

    He told a joint news conference in Cairo that there was no justification for the intensity of the campaign.''



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,812 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    I think we can all agree that this kind of thing should be kept out of schools, no?

    The last thing you want to do to any child in a group is to alienate them. I wonder how a Jewish kid would feel attending a school promoting such events, or even a SA kid back in the time of Apartheid.

    They're too young at that age to be having an existential crisis about where they came from.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,393 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    I'm not sure that it is right to say few people can comprehend what is happening. We can all see what is happening in Gaza,it is not that complicated.

    But can they really? In this day and age where there is misinformation and disinformation everywhere, from multiple sources.

    Never mind the history going back 50-100 years of the region.

    Throw Iran into the mix, the multiple wars against Israel, the "who really started it" debate.

    It is an insanely complicated issue, and these BDS guys will just trim it down to the bare bones and just blame Israel.

    THAT is indoctrination.

    If something like that was going to go ahead, id much rather a group of Israelis/Jews and Palestinians/Muslims do it as a collective and show that even though one comes from a different background and may disagree on things, they can do so peacefully and respectfully. There are groups like these already in the States that offer educational seminars.

    But that BDS-inspired thing? No, it's just indoctrination and propaganda.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,091 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Russia is under international sanctions. Israel is not, and that dichotomy means that ordinary people feel obliged to take their own outrage and act, in ways both small and large.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,919 ✭✭✭Cordell


    We all know why not. They should just do their fkin job. And next time they're getting paid maybe think about the fact that some of their salaries are paid by taxes collected from MNC with operations in Israel.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,919 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Russia is under international sanctions. Israel is not

    And why is that? Could it be because Israel's war is righteous and Russia's war isn't? No, it must be because the jews control the world, right?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,082 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    It is not misinformation that Israel has killed tens of thousands of people in Gaza. There is some information that could be discussed in schools just not supplied by BDS

    I would believe anything agreed to in America regarding the conflict would likely be nowhere near balanced. The US has in living memory always been totally biased on this topic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,912 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Perhaps they should not have attacked Israel so. Funny, I have no bruises and am not detained by the Israelis. Yet they were. I wonder why.

    In fact, I was looking at Airbnb in Israel and I reckon I could go there on holiday safely and come back, because I'm not a supporter of the terrorist regime Hamas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,082 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    You are probably safe, they only seem to beat up Palestinians. I reckon you could have gone to South Africa on holidays during Apartheid and been safe too.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,199 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Once again I feel a need to pop in here and say that war crimes a bad. Targeting civilians is bad. Killing civilians is bad. As is starving them, trapping them, jailing them or any other breach of their human rights.

    Hamas Crimes are bad.

    Israeli Crimes are bad.

    Now let's take a look at the casualty figures. The palestinian casualties are now 30 times what the israeli is. And at least 20 times more civilians have been killed by Israel than vice versa.

    So I have no problems calling out the crimes of both, but one of those sides is killing far more civilians.



  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭scottser


    Be careful next time you tear down a Palestinian flag there bud.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,314 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Regardless of whether Israel has signed any particular convention, I, too, am curious to know which convention prohibits booby trapping a flag, because I am not aware of any. There are certain things it is prohibited by convention to booby trap, but flags are not on the list.

    Then again, I am also curious to know which convention places a flat prohibition on the use of white phosphorous, either against personnel or in towns, as again I am not aware of any.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,912 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Probably because the elected representatives of my semi recognized state didnt attack a sovereign nation though eh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,304 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    You shouldn’t have the right to refuse the basic necessities of your job. Are they going to refuse to handle any mail going to England due to our history? This conflict is half way across the world and refusing to deliver mail to or from someone seems like you are infringing on their rights.

    This reminds me of the dope that tried to refuse a Russian ship to dock in Dublin port of his own back on the spot. You do not get to make those type of calls.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,082 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    So you are all in for collective punishment then. I wouldn't support that in the case of Israelis or Palestinians.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,919 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Yes I will put that on the same list as displaying that cartoon and disrespecting that book. That's how terrorism works btw.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,919 ✭✭✭Cordell


    The palestinian casualties are now 30 times what the israeli is

    That's completely irrelevant, there is no acceptable number of civilian casualties, and that's what Israel is trying to do here, protect their lives and bring down their casualties to zero. They should not be condemned for being better prepared and better equipped and more motivated.



  • Registered Users Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Fuascailteoir


    Your comments are horrendous, excusing away the murder of tens of thousands of men, women and children. Despicable



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,091 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Please don't superimpose your strange beliefs on my posts, thanks.



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