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Munster Team Talk Thread - New season title pending....

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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    Sob to center, kilgallen to wing.

    Be grand we just need health



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    As disappointed as I’d be to lose Frisch, writing off next season seems… a bit over the top.



  • Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭Rugbyf565


    I’d be happy if we started playing Shane Daly at 13, his proper position. Think he’d be a weapon from there, looked very good at 13 in the 20’s.



  • Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭Tipp1991


    Which was 8 years ago. He's started one game for Munster at 13, which was back in 2018/19. Hard to say it's his proper position.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I’d be surprised to see it happen at this point. I think we’ve seen enough of him on the wing to know what he’s capable of there for us and fits our style really well.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭Rugbyf565


    which is down to Van Graan’s terrible player management



  • Registered Users Posts: 438 ✭✭Stanley 1


    Best of luck to Frisch if he goes, a year left on his contract, so probably a small transfer fee due.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Thomas Farrell is probably an upgrade on Frisch. He's rumoured to be signing from Connacht. Trouble is he's pretty injury-prone, so SOB will probably deputise quite a lot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,310 ✭✭✭✭phog


    He'll be top class if he's an upgrade to Frisch



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Frisch will be/would be the most impactful loss of personnel in some time, imo. You don't just find a 13 with his defensive organizational nous every day. He goes about his business very subtly, but his reading of the game is elite level. Then, on the other side of the ball, he is a solid carrier, loves an offload, but has the speed to get wide and support attacks, something that has been a core weapon for Mike P's attack. He's one that we will sorely miss, and struggle to replace any time soon.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭Tipp1991


    Rowntree isn't exactly picking him to play in the centre either. The truth is Daly's handling is nowhere near good enough to be a centre. He has a minimum of 2 to 3 knock ons in every game, as a winger with less touches of the ball.

    I think Daly will be under pressure next year for his starting jersey. I could see a Kilgallen (if he can get a run injury free) and Nash be Munster's first choice wingers with Daly being predominately in the 23 jersey.

    And for all of Van Graan's "terrible player management", Josh Wycherley; Diarmuid Barron; Scott Buckley; Fineen Wycherley; Tom Ahern; Alex Kendellen; John Hodnett; Jack O’Sullivan; Gavin Coombes; Craig Casey; Jack Crowley; Jack Daly; Patrick Campbell were all given their debuts by Van Graan.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Rowntree isn't exactly picking him to play in the centre either.

    Neither did Andy Farrell, fwiw.

    And for all of Van Graan's "terrible player management"

    100% agree. As soon as we had a good standard of academy player coming thru, JVG gave them opportunities.

    I'd add that, imo, the origins of Munster's handling game that we see now started towards the end of the Van Graan era, in the last 12 months or so. It's significantly better since then and Prendergast deserves the majority of the credit, but you could see us trying to increase our passes per phase at times; but the handling wasn't at the level it is now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,241 ✭✭✭Boscoirl


    it’s a good trip my second time down here for games(2018 being the first time). You are paying A premium for it to be organised. If you did it yourself. It would be cheaper. But the upside is you can be with a good group. Still friend with people We have met in these tours. And some Parts of SA are not safe. So having local tour guides direct you a better sense of security.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    The42 Article on Leinster's departures notes that we've been denied (or not been granted rather) permission to sign an NIQ loose head.

    Whycherly had a good cameo last weekend, but I worry whether he (or anyone else behind him: Donnelly, K. Ryan, Calvey) will be able to make the step up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,580 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    fold up the tent i suppose and quit rugby altogether. No point in going on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,310 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Thanks and definitely, if I was doing SA it would with an organised group, worth the extra levy..



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    If Loughman is still in the frame for Ireland for the post-Healy era, then this makes sense. If he's not, then maybe not.

    I would really like to see some front-rower being signed though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    Its an insane decision imo.

    They obviously need a player there (its mentioned on almost every podcast). It would add a ton to their chances in the european cup and is the single biggest impactful upgrade they can make in this squad.

    Loughman would get tons of time either way. Its nuts. I cannot think of any justification for this that wouldn't also preclude other NIQ signings that have been allowed.

    I think this is what jackman meant by the union needing to help them more. Like this is going way too far in the direction of helping the national team first.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Any rumours of Byrne or EOS going to Munster?

    I don't think they're good enough to start or bench but maybe with more game time or better coaching they could do a job.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    if Ulster have been promised an NIQ LH to replace Kitshoff, then that might explain it



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    There's kind of a game you have to play i think when it comes to contracting.

    Ed Byrne has interest in england and ireland, so he probably wants more than a one year deal so i would avoid him. I'd want someone for one year as a stopgap, and then try again on boyle (apparently a one year deal) or an NIQ.

    O Sullivan could be a good one year option. You really want to present a picture of scarcity and pray humphries is more open to ideas lol.

    Edit; the last rumour i heard was byrne to ulster. I don't mind that if o toole is moving but not super excited.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Rumour is now that Ed Byrne is going up yonder.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    1999 - Fitzpatrick, Clarke, Irwin
    2006 - Horan, Flannery, Hayes
    2008 - Horan, Flannery, Hayes
    2009 - Healy, Jackman, Wright
    2011 - Healy, Strauss, Ross
    2012 - Healy, Strauss, Ross
    2018 - Healy, Cronin, Furlong

    These are the requisite calibres of front rows for Irish provinces to win a European cup. I count only four of the above list that were developed solely in house: Horan, Hayes, Healy and Furlong. I also count one European Cup in the Nucifora era, i.e., since greater emphasis was placed on the provinces using IQ players. Interestingly, the above list are indeed mostly IQ, but the flipside is, one European cup in 12 years suggests they do not come along at anything close to the required frequency.

    As an island of human primates, we just don't seem to be replete with whatever genetic mutations are required to be elite level scrummagers. So I dunno, do we call time on the Nucifora approach? If the IRFU put any value on provinces going long in the European Cup, and on players being tested in that pressure environment, we might need to look at more NIQ props being permitted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    I looked at total NIQs and came to the same conclusion. 2018 was the only 'low' NIQ year. That's only magnified now with benches being so important.

    I think its 99% impossible for ulster or munster to win a european cup in this era. Even if we were both run optimally. You just have to produce too many elite players at the same time.

    If leinster drop off at all production wise, it will get tough for them too. Even no NIQ THP next year opens them up to one furlong injury from a bit of a crisis.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,310 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Those first few cups were won by having only two front row players on the bench too. 22 man squads back in those days



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,988 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    If there is to be no NIQ, at LH I think keeping Killer on at his age would be a mistake, time to give youth its head.

    I guess we hope Josh Wycherley starts to step up to backup Loughman. He has great hands in the loose but the jury is still out on his scrummaging, as it is usually on most young props. Still only 24. Archer was a late bloomer to a competent URC level prop. I suspect Josh will need a couple more seasons getting his arse handed to him occasionally before we see his true level.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,988 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Something that we don't see teams doing a lot is what Eddie Jones had Japan doing in the RWC where they got it in to the hooker and back down the channel to 8 and out of the scrum in a couple of seconds. Have scrummaging laws put paid to that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    You seem to want the data to say something different than what it actually says. There's one NIQ prop in total on your list.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030




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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,620 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    I don't particularly remember these being all timer front rows though

    2009 - Healy

    Jackman

    Wright

    2011 - Healy

    Strauss

    Ross

    2012 - Healy

    Strauss

    Ross

    We're pretty much looking at Cian Healy + journeymen. Ross obviously had a big Irish career but I doubt he would have gotten many caps for our rivals



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