Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

Nobody knows where they’re going yet. The deadline from IAG was late April I believe.

This date was set because Airbus need to get the aircraft painted by the end of the month at the latest in order for it to begin flight testing and stay on schedule for delivery.

IAG claim delivery is dependent on reaching an agreement with pilots. At present, last ditch talks between EI and IALPA have failed, now they await the Labour Relations Court. A resolution from that is a long shot and even if it happens, is weeks away from being put forward so it is very, very unlikely Aer Lingus will meet IAG’s deadline.

Personally I’m leaning more and more towards the suggestion that IAG have already made their minds up, the pilot issue along with the Dublin passenger cap is enough to ensure Aer Lingus will not be receiving the XLR and I wouldn’t be surprised if we soon see their A32Ns remaining on order go elsewhere too.

It's such a shame with this happening and the cap, both things that will have lasting effects for years

Another photo of the XLR. Shame if EI don’t get it. (Sorry for dodgy looking link-pasted funny)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/danraistrick/53665337474/in/photolist-2pLmUC3-2pLiZWb-2pLiWEU-2pLjquD-2pLc4GM-2pLdTad-2pLdFW1-2pLcX7H-2pLc5zw-2pLa8Eq-2pLbXWw-2pLcb3M-2pL9tmM-2pL2PyL-2pL89xd-2pL8C2T-2pL72QH-2pL5r2b-2pL4azN-2pL2m4u-2pKZSbT-2pKVp8o-2pKZSbH-2pL2FYn-2pKVp7S-2pKZSb2-2pKVp8d-2pL3e1P-2pL3e2A-2pL1Xrh-2pKXwLh-2pKVHsX-2pKVHsG-2pKWhAr-2pKTTnC-2pKVHr9-2pKPrdT-2pKKAug-2pKRaTX-2pKQnLw-2pKP4Nc-2pKNrGs-2pKKSrW-2pKKbYK-2pKJ2qB-2pKLrgh-2pKBGUB-2pKyFP8-2pKBSX8-2pKz1RD

The Labour Court meetng on 22 April has been described as a hearing, so it is just the next stage in a process. The Court would not issue a report immediately - more like a few weeks later, if indeed the meeting on the 22nd is a formal hearing of the two sides, with presentations.

I think this a very accurate summary of the situation. EI weren’t the original launch customer of the XLR. External factors shoehorned them into so. EI don’t need the first XLR. They have no plans for it until the winter. This aircraft would probably have gone into storage for the the few months after the initial launch.

What’s far more concerning for EI and the other operators in Dublin is the passenger cap. This is going to become a major issue very soon, and the XLR issue will pale into insignificance if it’s not resolved.

The XLR narrative in relation to the pay talks is convenient for the company. I think the penny has dropped with them though that pilots in particular don’t really care about the delivery date. EI won’t be the launch customer. It’s clear now that Iberia will operate it initially, more than likely for route proving and training purposes prior to their own deliveries of what will essentially be a new narrow body Transatlanix fleet for them.

Iberia A321 XLR also on the line.

https://flic.kr/p/2pLdSTX

It isn't simply wages. In the case of Aer Lingus, IAG are looking for productivity improvements as part of the negotiations which doesn't seem to have been picked up on.

This what Luis Gallego himself had say at the Annual results briefing: " Then we have Aer Lingus. Aer Lingus, the issue, Lynne can explain better than me, is that pilots are asking for increases in three years, that don't make any sense. Productivity of the pilots of Aer Lingus is not high. They are asking to remove the productivity measures that were agreed during COVID and because of that, we don't have a lot of space to reach an agreement. It's not that we don't want to invest in Aer Lingus. For
sure, we want, and we are investing in Aer Lingus. I think it's the airline that with more growth since they joined the group because they have a huge potential."

I've provided the transcript of the Results briefing, P16 is where he comments on it.

Source: https://www.iairgroup.com/media/tqcdf2zq/transcript-iag-fy-results.pdf P

The "half as many hours" is a bit far-fetched, but I appreciate the sentiment of your message.

Many I know in the airline would float around 700-800hrs (A320 FOs), compared with your 900hrs in Ryanair.

Doubles are a common feature for EI crew, both pilots and cabin crew alike! Many would fly 20 sectors in 5 days on a regular basis! While 5 days of “doubles” would reduce the flight hours, it doubles the workload!

I apologise if that sounded harsh. They are of course the best pilots in the business and need their pay deal to reflect that. I was of course comparing to what I know about Aer Lingus with what I know about that blue airline and their working conditions.

There could definitely be some realistic improvements to productivity while they reach that deal though ! Again probably not as harsh as I implied !!

No such thing as a stupid question.

Doubles are pairings of flight duties on the same day. A "normal" work day for short haul crew might be a flight to Rome and back. Doubles are 4 sector days where, for example, you might operate a Dublin-Amsterdam-Dublin flight and then do a Dublin-Birmingham-Dublin after that. They are high workload days and they are long with any delay early in the day compounding and increasing time pressure on the other sectors. Other common doubles would be double London Heathrows, Manchester/Paris, Dublin-Heathrow-Knock-Heathrow-Dublin etc.

They do still exist - double Manchester - Liverpool (combo) from DUB and Cork has them too. (Double Stansted - Manchester)

That statement EI pilots don’t work half as hard is a very mid 1990s statement.

If anything the pilot numbers are very light - siding on short staffed. Max hours are very common. 800-850 on the 320 is common. That is very high when you consider it’s mixed European and TA flights.

330 pilots can vary from 650-800 (depending on how many nights away).

Shannon is the same. The SNN Ryanair crew would do Shannon-Gatwick-Shannon-Alicante-Shannon for example. 4 sector days are very common

lintdrummer explained it pretty well but something like DUB-LHR-DUB-LHR-DUB etc. Basically two trips in a day