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Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,358 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    I wouldn’t panic. Single tickets are likely to be easy enough to get. Keep your ear to the ground. Bank holiday weekend there’ll be plenty told you will in your hole be going to that



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,481 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    It's definitely something the schedulers need to look at , this is the 3rd year in a row where Leinster have had their SA tour block right in the middle of the knock-out phase of the Champions cup.

    They need to do a bit better here.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Unfortunately I'm struggling to think of a time of the season where we would send a strong squad.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Deeny will hopefully make a big leap forward, because by next season he could well feature in the strongest available XXIII with Snyman's injury record and Baird being seen as the starter at blindside.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,481 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    We'd likely never send a full bore squad , but earlier in the season the chances of a higher representation from the starting Champions Cup 23 would be much better.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭FrannoFan


    Can't see it ever happening. Same way sexton rarely played an away game outside Ireland. Frontline players will always be resting from something or for something.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,357 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Leinster won't

    Early season the players are been bedded back into the team as they have probably been on a summer tour

    Then you have the team getting ready for the November AI's so the main Irish players won't travel

    After November you have players rested after the AI's, plus European games

    Then in Jan/Feb you have players getting ready for 6 nations

    After 6 nations Leinster would play to be in the same position as now

    The only time I could see it is if Leinster got knocked out early, group stages of Europe and just playing for the URC, requiring two wins



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't see any reason for Leinster to be considered a "despised team", especially not outside of Ireland. Despite stupid social media jabs from some of those notorious troll accounts, Leinster is still a team where over 90%+ of the squad is produced via their own Academy.

    Anyone trying to compare Leinster to the likes of Toulon or Saracens is utterly clueless.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,561 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    What's Deeny's status. Is he signed on for next season?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,561 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    But that's the crux. In a roundabout way, some pundits, imo, are implying that Leinster are a Toulon, Sarries etc. At least that's my understanding. Granted the team is mostly homegrown and some excellent signings but, it's to the point where I think Leinster is the only game in town.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He signed a contract in 2022.

    Unsure of tenor of that deal, but he's not going anywhere so will be there next year in all likelihood.

    I agree with you that we look a little light there - I've never been too impressed with him in his performances so far (and haven't seen enough of Conor O'Tighearnaigh to know if he's ready to step up and take some minutes).

    Ross Molony has averaged 1,329 minutes over the past three seasons (which works out at almost 17 full games) so it's a lot of minutes for someone to step into, and even if Snyman miraculously stays fit, there's unlikely a scenario where Leinster envisage getting even half that production out of him. If you include all of the domestic (non-international) minutes Snyman has played over the past 5 seasons you have a lower number (1,253 mins) than Molony's average.

    I thought there was scope this year to try and bring back a lower cost, IQ option in the second row (like Jack Dunne for example who's leaving Exeter and moving to Scarlets), but doesn't look like they're doing anything in that regard.

    You don't really want to see Baird plugged in to fill gaps in the row either in case of injury, as he looks better placed focusing on the 6 shirt where he's having a great season. Equally, Ireland won't want Ryan & McCarthy playing massive minutes either.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah, but absolutely nobody anywhere takes the likes of TRK or the other PSOM guys seriously. Similarly, very few people would place much weight on the opinions of random, unknown journalists for the likes of Planet Rugby. The PSOM guys in particular make money for themselves by throwing muck at Leinster, they do it purely to inflame arguments because it gives them relevance, and drives engagement which makes money for them.

    By contrast, in the past week, there have been relatively well considered comments from people like Rob Baxter, Bernard Jackman, John Ryan etc which aren't castigating Leinster for the situation they're in.

    As I said - people comparing a Leinster team where over 90% of the squad is produced in their own Academy to the Toulon super teams etc aren't really worth getting too worried about.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,357 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    I find it strange. They complain about Leinster, especially on BT/TNT, then lord over how great LaR are who are the closest team to Toulon currently, without the gobby owner of course.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,053 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Are they really? Relatively few non French players and can't be compared to toulon or near close to what they were in their pomp.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    He would need to add enough weight that you'd almost think it would be 2026 before he played much there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    At the end of the day, having the money to buy a team and having the money to keep anyone you want to keep is functionally the same thing to big french teams. Its all money at the end of the day.

    I'd agree it is morally better if that's the right word, but french teams would counter that leinster also have unique advantages in that they have a virtual monopoly on talent in their region. Players can leave but you are only making more money outside ireland.

    I do think, especially if say leinster win this year and next, that the big french teams will want more financial transparency and possible some kind of cap that mirrors the french one.

    The irfu would argue its not that simple as central contracts are partially for international duty and so on and so on, but you know.. if you can destroy a thing you control the thing.. and the french can bin the european cup tomorrow and not blink.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    100% agree tbh, made a similar point not too long ago and stand over it.

    I think any comparisons to Toulon are wide of the mark. For example, it's pretty well known that Botia and Atonio played for them in Pro D2 over a decade ago. 

    It's really not like Toulon circa 2014 who had a cast of the biggest names in world rugby.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,357 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    That’s because of the JIFF system which now restricts the clubs from doing a Toulon

    They had the strongest squad in Europe which was built up very quick when you look at similar French team, they played in pro D2, for a massive injection of money and went to the top of Europe, from recollection quicker then Toulon managed.

    Toulon did it a lot more high profile because of the owner and they had the option to fill the team with loads of non French



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,357 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Not sure why you needed to copy and paste the same post again 🤷



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,589 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    La Rochelle have to abide by stricter jiff and non french rules in their squads compared with what Toulon had to.

    Comparisons are disingenuous because of this.

    Any attempt to compare is to apples and oranges. Both teams maxed out their foreign allowance.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Firstly, Leinster don’t have the money to keep anyone they want. Ross Molony is a prime example of this being discussed on this thread today. Leinster would have liked to keep him, and unquestionably there’s a financial offer that could have kept him, but it wasn’t doable for Leinster this year.

    Secondly - the two scenarios are not remotely comparable in any given way. Toulon in c. 2013 had global superstars not making the match 23. They had guys like Joe Van Niekerk, Steffon Armitage, Freddie Michalak, Gethin Jenkins, Davit Kubriashvili, Maxime Mermoz all coming off the bench in a European Cup Final. In 2014 they had guys like Ali Williams and Martin Castrogiovanni etc coming off the bench.

    The guys missing out on Leinster 23s for European games etc are guys like Max Deegan, Scott Penny etc. It’s not even remotely comparable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    Its the same in that anyone with any idea of rugby contract values can look at your squad next year and say 'yea, that's probably well over the french cap'. People aren't dumb.

    That's the same and that's all that really matters to bordeaux, la rochelle and toulouse. Why should they care about the origin of the players?

    Ross Moloney level players leaving VERY occasionally is not exactly a hardship.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Which global superstars didn't make the Toulon match 23? My memory is fuzzy.

    The names you mention are bench players in Toulon's case but guys not making the XXIII in Leinster's case

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,561 ✭✭✭Dubinusa




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Because I think your characterisation of LAR as Toulon-sans-Boudjellal is an unfair one.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    For the reasons previously discussed - the central contracts are at least partially recognition of the international obligations of the players so simply comparing Leinster’s wage bill to Toulouse’s is not like for like, unless you also include the FFR payments to the French internationals in the Toulouse squad.

    You’re apportioning the entirety of the IRFU central contract value to Leinster’s central contracted players, but not giving any recognition to the FFR payments to the French players. It’s not an apples with apples comparison.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    Ok, fair enough.

    We can't see actual irfu figures so we don't know exactly what the numbers are. If i'm the top 14 at the next negotiation i want to look at the actual numbers and i would be extremely skeptical of the irfu deciding that x amount of furlongs salary is actually for ireland, and y amount is for leinster… when leinster are a branch of the irfu and all money basically comes from them anyway.

    I'd be personally surprised if even including FFR payments, that leinster are below toulouse next year but who knows. Intentionally, no one knows.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,357 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Leinster signed a NZ player on a short term 6 month contract

    They also signed a fairly injury ravaged player on a pay per play deal for 1 year

    This while losing two NIQ and a number of long term squad players

    Now we have people claiming the IRFU and Leinster have better spending power than Toulouse & FFR.

    FFR bought a World Cup after all off IRFU



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It’s possibly higher next season, but I would supremely doubt Leinster’s wage bill is higher this season when I compare the squads on a position group by position group basis.

    Have a good friend who works as a rugby agent in Ireland and has a handful of current Irish internationals as clients. Per him it is absolutely not the case that all centrally contracted players are on close to the typically reported level (€500k pa) and he said this was the upper end for the majority compared to the average as typically portrayed.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    In other words you spent alot of money on two extremely in demand players.



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