Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

They had ludicrous depth in certain positions.

In 2013/14 as back row options they had all of the following: Juan Smith (70 cap Springbok), Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe (71 Argentina caps), Chris Masoe (20 All Blacks caps), Joe van Niekerk (52 Springbok caps), Danie Rossouw (63 cap Springbok) and Steffon Armitage (5 England caps and European Player of the Year that season).

In the back three they had all of: Drew Mitchell (71 Australia caps), Bryan Habana (124 Springbok caps), Josua Tuisova (19 Fiji caps), Alexis Palisson (21 France caps), Rudi Wulf (4 All Blacks caps), Delon Armitage (26 England caps) and David Smith (started majority of games that season and top try scorer).

Maxime Mermoz (35 France caps) didn't usually crack a match day 23 for them as they had Giteau and Basteraud as first choice centre pairing.

Simple maths would tell you they couldn't get all of these guys into a match 23 so at least some were regularly missing out.

I've done this exercise before where I try to backsolve into what is Leinster's likely salary cost, including the Central Contracts, and even if I'm being extremely bullish on certain salaries, I still struggle to get to the numbers people attribute to them.

Group A: 9 centrally contracted players: Furlong (€650k), Porter (€600k), Sheehan (€500k), Ryan (€500k), Van der Flier (€500k), Henshaw (€500k), Ringrose (€500k), Keenan (€500k) - you could argue some of these might be a little higher, but I would pretty much guarantee quite a few of these are substantially lower too. Total of this cohort: €4.85m

Group B: 7 High paid established internationals: James Lowe (€300k), Jack Conan (€300k), Jamison Gibson Park (€300k), Ronan Kelleher (€250k), Michael Ala'alatoa (€250k), Ross Byrne (€250k), Charlie Ngatai (€250k) Total: €1.9m

Group C: 11 Breakthrough internationals or guys winding down: Jimmy O'Brien (€200k), Ryan Baird (€200k), Max Deegan (€200k), Will Connors (€200k), Rhys Ruddock (€200k), Cian Healy (€200k), Luke McGrath (€200k), Jordan Larmour (€200k), Jason Jenkins (€200k), Ross Molony (€200k), Ciaran Frawley (€200k) Total: €2.2m

Group D: 5 Guys largely on their second pro contract, or not established starters: Joe McCarthy (€150k), Scott Penny (€150k), Harry Byrne (€150k), Jamie Osborne (€150k), Ed Byrne (€120k). Total: €720k

Group E: 12 Guys largely on their first contract: Sam Prendergast (€90k), Liam Turner (€90k), Tommy O'Brien (€90k), Rob Russell (€90k), Michael Milne (€90k), Tom Clarkson (€90k), Cormac Foley (€60k), Brian Deeny (€60k), Martin Moloney (€60k), Alex Soroka (€60k), Lee Barron (€60k), John McKee (€60k). Total: €900k

That gives a total of €10.57m total which is pretty much in line with the French cap. There are a handful you could argue the toss on either way, but I would say there are a lot more in there where I've over-estimated the salary (Ngatai, Connors, Jenkins, Molony, Frawley, Osborne, McCarthy, Penny) than guys where I've under-estimated.

For next season - JGP will move from c. €350k to c. €500k (I doubt he's going to that high a number), and you're bringing in Jordie Barrett on c. €300k and Snyman on c. €500k, so that's adding €950k to the overall bill, but you also have to take out all of: Ala'alatoa (€250k), Jenkins (€200k), Molony (€200k), Byrne (€120k), Ngatai (€250k), so that's taking €1.02m out of the overall bill, leaving it broadly flat YoY at €10.55m for next year. Obviously if they sign another THP it will go up a bit.

I've already made the point that this isn't an apples and apples comparison to the French cap (because the French players get additional FFR payments), so while it's obviously higher than the other Irish provinces and the other URC teams, it's pretty much directly in line with the French cap. It absolutely isn't anywhere remotely close to the nonsensical figures bandied around in the past week of c. €13m-€14m or anything close to that.

It’s not an absolute certainty that he could have. People generally on here have a tendency to over-inflate rugby salaries generally.

Salaries have come down in Europe in recent years - the English and Welsh have imposed severely restrictive salary caps, the French slightly cut back their cap post COVID and the Irish have notably never been the best payers.

Even if Furlong could have gotten €750k from a French team, he’d have to balance that up with the expectation that he plays 16-20 games a year for them, when he’s averaged under 9 games a year for Leinster the past few years.

A lot of players would have the sense to realise that while they might make an extra 15% playing in France, they might only make that for a season or two, while staying in Ireland might extend their career by an extra couple of years beyond that, and keep them fresher for international rugby.

A relatively well put together article from John O’Sullivan in the Irish Times in June ‘23 had the following salary ranges for Irish rugby players:

Academy Contract: €8k pa

First Pro Contract: €15-€20k

Senior Provincial Contract: €80k-€100k

Regular Provincial Non International: €100k-€150k

Top End Provincial: up to €350k

Central Contracts: €500k-€600k, upper ceiling of €700k for select few