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Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

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    #26132
    FrannoFan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭FrannoFan


    Screenshot_20240425-183849.png

    Granted a lot of our players are above average but gives an idea of what the money is actually like.



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    #26133
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,589 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122062855#Comment_122062855

    Can you PLEASE learn how to quote properly.

    Your posts read like off the top of your head musings because you aren't quoting who you are talking to.

    Do not use the "reply" button

    Use the "quote" button



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    #26134
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,561 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122063031#Comment_122063031

    Ok. Sorry



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    #26135
    leakyboots
    Registered Users Posts: 5,988 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122062879#Comment_122062879

    If I knew he was going to be fit, of course.

    But he hasn't been and given his last few years for us, Kleyn was the more solid and correct choice and I think that's what most fans thought. I don't think anyone was saying Kleyn is a better player, just a better player for us as a team.

    Leaving for the "production line" probably grated with some but, hey, it's a short career. If Leinster can keep him fit he's an unreal signing, even if some don't seem to want to even countenance that he could be better than the home produced players. He's just so big and athletic with his handling skills it looks like he's playing in a different age group at times and he's the older one making hay at ease.

    Kleyn does the nuts and bolts for us, our scrum and maul are better with him. Edogbo will take his place is probably the plan? Based on his numbers up to the injury that I posted on here he was arguably a better prospect than McCarthy but this is his second serious injury so who knows how he'll come back from it.



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    #26136
    jacothelad
    Registered Users Posts: 5,931 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    God, that was tedious. What was the point of who was more in demand / not in demand?…..FFS



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    #26137
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122063347#Comment_122063347

    Obviously fans are going to root for their own players etc, but it's a massive stretch to claim Edwin Edogbo looked a better prospect than Joe McCarthy.

    Edogbo has barely played - 14 total games for Munster, and plenty of those against Tier 2 URC sides (Dragons x2, Zebre, Sharks, etc). He just hasn't done it on anything close to the level of opposition McCarthy has done it against.

    In McCarthy's breakthrough season (his first season post U20s) he was in the Leinster 23 through the European Cup knockouts including the final. Didn't play meaningful minutes in those games, but spoke to how highly he was regarded nonetheless.

    This year - he's been a mainstay for Leinster, including winning against La Rochelle twice, has played in every Champions Cup game and started every game for Ireland in a 6 Nations winning campaign.

    The stats you previously highlighted were URC only, and even they didn't actually support the point that he's a "better prospect".

    Not taking anything away from Edogbo - I think he's a really good prospect and I hope he makes it back from injury well, but to me the only part of their respective games where I would think Edogbo has the upper hand is he looks a more disruptive ruck presence. McCarthy is a far better carrier, better hitter and while neither is an elite lineout operator, McCarthy is better. Both are very good at disrupting opposition mauls.



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    #26138
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,137 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Edogbo wasn't within an ass's roar of McCarthy at any stage this year.

     I don't think anyone was saying Kleyn is a better player, just a better player for us as a team.

    Good to hear you agree that Kleyn can be selected for one team because he suits their circumstances and it doesn't automatically mean he is better than another player.

    This has been a concept certain posters have struggled with since last summer.



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    #26139
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122063347#Comment_122063347

    even if some don't seem to want to even countenance that he could be better than the home produced players

    I think "could" is the operative word here though. He's played so little that really none of us know his true level and I'd include Munster fans in that.

    If he does turn out to better than either Ryan or McCarthy, then I'll be delighted, especially if he's only here for one season.



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    #26140
    leakyboots
    Registered Users Posts: 5,988 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122063519#Comment_122063519

    His true level? He's won two World Cups. He's been good enough to bench and start for the World Cup winners of the last two World Cups. 34 caps. It's not like they're stuck for options in that position unlike where we're rolling out Healy at THP off the bench and could well be again next season.

    So I think we have a fair idea of his true level - it's up there - and I find it baffling that some Leinster people on here seem to think he's this absolutely huge skillful fella who has fooled everyone into thinking he's really good at rugby when he actually isn't and they know better. I find it hilarious that people genuinely think Joe McCarthy is a better player. Joe who's still in his rugby nappies. All potential, hushed tones about central contracts (after 10 caps!) that I know the likes of Clegg are wishing it hard enough on here that it'll happen for this generational player, and maybe some day in the future, but he's got a body of work to get through yet.

    He's been injured and it's Munsters tough luck that it happened mainly on our watch. When he's fit he's damn near unplayable. Keep him fit and I dare say you'll be whistling a different tune on here.



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    #26141
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122064235#Comment_122064235

    His true level? He's won two World Cups. He's been good enough to bench and start for the World Cup winners of the last two World Cups.

    He has never started a Rugby Championship match for SA and only started against Namibia and Canada in the World Cup. He is an impact bench player for them, nothing more.



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    #26142
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122064235#Comment_122064235

    Nobody anywhere is denying RG Snyman's ceiling is sky high. He's been an incredible player whenever he can stay healthy, but that's the real caveat, because his minutes over the past 5 seasons are outrageously low.

    I don't think anyone here credibly suggest Joe McCarthy is a better player than Snyman, but it's entirely reasonable to deduce Joe McCarthy could easily be a more effective player for Leinster than Snyman - if Snyman carries on like he has for the past 5 years and can't consistently get onto the pitch.

    Also - don't think anyone has realistically suggested Joe McCarthy for a central contract either.



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    #26143
    leakyboots
    Registered Users Posts: 5,988 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122063430#Comment_122063430

    I posted those stats pre- a good bit of what you're talking about, so you're taking a point of view against Edogbo a bit after the fact.

    Unfortunately for Edogbo, he got injured at Xmas so we'll never know how he would have panned out at the business end. Maybe he'd have been no use to us against Northampton. But when I posted those stats, and if you're talking pure stats, which isn't a true indicator mind, Edogbo was arguably matching or outperforming Naomh Joe at that point in the URC. Those were the stats I could find at that point in the season. I just found it interesting amid the Joe hype at the time, Edogbo was posting similar numbers. So "a massive stretch" and "not within an asses roar" my eye.

    Joe got his chance in 6 Nations, did very well against a poor French team (but away so not to be sniffed at all the same) and I think it's fair to say didn't hit those same heights after. A promising debut campaign but I wouldn't be inking up the central contract just yet like some have mentioned on here.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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    #26144
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Speculation on Leinsterfans (from one of the better sources on there) that Leinster are going to take Casper Gabriel straight into the Academy this year (he's finishing school this year).

    Very exciting young player, has looked excellent. It's been quite a few years since Leinster took a guy straight out of school, so obviously speaks to how highly they rate him.



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    #26145
    leakyboots
    Registered Users Posts: 5,988 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122064274#Comment_122064274

    Agreed, that's the caveat.

    "If he does turn out to be better than Ryan or McCarthy". That's where I took that from up the page. Maybe I'm mad but I think he'll be a better player than both if he's fit, that's my argument. I guess say a few prayers every Thursday/Friday before team announcements and we'll reconvene in 12 months and one of us can be nose to the floor.

    Your last line - somewhere amid the mess that was posing as debate on here in the past week (there really needs to be some sort of a thread discussing standard of debate) where I kept my counsel I saw mention of McCarthy being likely to get a central contract. I'm not prepared to go back to find that as I generally spent most of that week when I did occasionally check in here rolling my eyes and spending my time getting on with the real world but you'll just have to either take my word for it or have an internet point as I'm refusing to go and search and drag it up again other than to say Dan Sheehan only just got awarded his, JGP might get one if rumours are to be believed and Joe still has a way to go yet.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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    #26146
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122064285#Comment_122064285

    Post the stats so - and let's pick them apart.

    But, realistically, the sample size of what we've seen from Edogbo is too small (and largely against poor enough quality opposition) to claim he's showing more potential than Joe McCarthy. There's no point talking about the what if's he hadn't gotten injured, because the fact he did is the reason he just hasn't been exposed at the highest levels, so you can't compare their CVs and track record at this point.

    Joe McCarthy has started and won massive European knock out games, he played in the RWC, came off the bench in a European Cup Final. He was man of the match in beating Munster in Thomond in December, had a stellar game in Marseille for Ireland v France, has started and beaten La Rochelle twice this season.

    You're comparing all of this to Edogbo putting up some decent numbers for 55 mins against the Dragons or Zebre in the URC and claiming he's showing more potential?!

    They're both big men - but McCarthy is a bit bigger - he's an inch taller and listed at 4kgs heavier. He's significantly quicker over the ground (look at the try he makes with the line break against Leicester in the Round of 16 this year and honestly ask yourself if Edogbo has that in his locker?) and seems to be better conditioned / better athlete too.



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    #26147
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122064288#Comment_122064288

    Can he tackle?

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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    #26148
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122064252#Comment_122064252

    Yep, this is it

    The assumption is that because he's a South Africa lock, he must be world class. And maybe he is, but no one on this forum has seen actual evidence of it, neither for SA nor Munster. Rassie certainly uses him sparingly.

    Simply waving at world cup medals implies that every South African player from the last five years is better than every Ireland player ever. If we said that Marvin Orie is better than Tadhg Beirne, or Deon Fourie is better than Dan Sheehan, would that make sense?

    He's got lovely hands, I'll give him that and I'll be excited to see what he can bring, but this craic about 'immediately the best lock at Leinster' is a massive stretch.

    Don’t think anyone said McCarthy should be on a central contract.

    Post edited by Former Former Former on


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    #26149
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122061324#Comment_122061324

    It's great isn't it?



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    #26150
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122062989#Comment_122062989

    The scrum half one is mad, they touch the ball more than any other player on the pitch by an order of magnitude.



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    #26151
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Fwiw, Ruaidhri O'Connor has suggested there may be stipulations in Snyman's contract regarding his minutes / selection when the other Irish players are fit, so he may end up in the 23 jersey regardless in some games next season.

    Personally think some Leinster fans are erring on the side of under-rating Snyman (and I get the point it's difficult to even know his level given his lack of game time) but whatever way you slice it, Ryan, Snyman and McCarthy is ridiculous lock depth.



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    #26152
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,481 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122064485#Comment_122064485

    If we look at the various second rows that have been mentioned here and think about team selection it gives you a feel for the players current relative "ranking" within the squads.

    For Munster right now if everyone was fully fit and available for a big game - Beirne and Kleyn are the starting locks and Snyman is on the bench ahead of Edogbo.

    For Leinster right now if everyone was fully fit and available for a big game - Ryan and McCarthy are the starting locks and depending on opposition Jenkins or Moloney are on the bench.

    Next Season not a lot changes I think.

    Again with everyone fit for Munster, Beirne and Kleyn are the starters but now Edogbo is the bench option.

    For Leinster , Ryan and McCarthy are still the starters with Snyman on the bench albeit he's an upgrade over Jenkins/Moloney.

    I really like the look of Edogbo , I think he has huge potential , but he really needs to stay fit for an extended run of games to deliver on that potential.



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    #26153
    FrannoFan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭FrannoFan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122064288#Comment_122064288

    Very interesting. Heard there is a lot of interest in him. (Ulster and Stade Francais mentioned)

    I only saw him play around 30 mins of senior cup this year(not a big sample size) but he blew me away.

    Be great news to hear he was being kept in the Leinster system

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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    #26154
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,446 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Be surprised be Edogbo can establish himself unfortunately. His injuries have been pretty brutal, I don't think he's going to one for a long career sadly



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    #26155
    Ribs1234
    Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭Ribs1234


    posters forgetting that Ireland beat South Africa in the World Cup. There wasn’t much between NZ v Ire, nor SA v NZ. Does that make the Irish second rows better than SouthAfrica’s? (P.s. This is not a serious question but just to countenance the winners medals stuff.

    Obviously the earlier point about who got picked for Gatland’s lions versus who didn’t , has been ignored too



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    #26156
    durthacht
    Registered Users Posts: 726 ✭✭✭durthacht


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122064288#Comment_122064288

    What position does he play?

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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    #26157
    CMcsporty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,748 ✭✭✭CMcsporty


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122065061#Comment_122065061

    10

    Casper Lorin Gabriel to give him his proper title.

    The parents!!



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    #26158
    EarWig
    Registered Users Posts: 525 ✭✭✭EarWig


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122065289#Comment_122065289

    They can add him to their list of potentially very good 10s.



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    #26159
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122065289#Comment_122065289

    He's Austrian. Moved here with his family a few years ago. Started one of the two recent Irish U19s games in April.



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    #26160
    CMcsporty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,748 ✭✭✭CMcsporty


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122065424#Comment_122065424

    no excuse! They could have done the decent thing and called him Peter.

    I heard he has a Sledgehammer of a left boot.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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    #26161
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,357 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122065289#Comment_122065289

    So lets start the speculation, which province should he move to?



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