George Nkencho shooting *Mod warning Added to OP*

They didn't need to call the Gardai, the Gardai had followed him home from the shop where he assaulted the staff member, in a prolonged and non-violent attempt to get him to surrender.

It's as much an indictment against the horrible reporting of the mainstream media, who routinely failed to report the shop worker was assaulted with a broken nose, as it is of people blindly believing social media posts of people being stabbed.

Skipping over the fact they have an extra sergeant. They also, after this incident, felt the potential for armed gardai to operate without sufficient oversight was something that need to be change.

I read about the shop keeper on "mainstream media".

The only lies being spread that I have seen are on here and social media.

That is solely down to the people spreading them. Even when it has been pointed out to them, they have continued to spread them.

But The Media, something, something.

It's very clear at the time this happened the Garda's equipment and procedures were insufficient. The recommendations will point that out, the changes the garda have already made point that out. Let's not pretend otherwise.

I haven't read through the whole thread, but could you summarise what you think they could have, or should have, done in the circumstances where a visibly agitated and unhinged man with a knife was already after attacking a few people. His own family - rather than coming out to calm him down - knew (probably wisely) not to go near him. They only shot him after he tried to lunge at one of them and stab them.

His own family - rather than coming out to calm him down - knew (probably wisely) not to go near him.

His sister claims she opened the door to him and told the Guards he had mental health problems, her claim is she was ushered back into the house. Claims that were confirmed by the Gardaí.

Mr Nkencho's sister, Gloria Nkencho, will tell Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission (Gsoc) investigators that her brother knocked on the door and she answered.

Ms Nkencho will tell investigators gardaí had surrounded her brother by this stage and that she asked them to leave him alone and said he had mental health issues.

The sister was then ushered back inside the house by gardaí and the door was closed over but not shut. The deceased’s three siblings were in the hallway when the shots were fired.

The narrative that members of the family were terrified and just looked out the window as he was shot, is false.

They very much tried to intervene but it happened so quickly there were not permitted to for "their safety"

It is worth noting that there is a claim that 2 of the bullets fired went through a window of house and into the hallway.

The reality is the full facts of what happened have not been made public, that will be the job of the coroner when they get the go ahead to resume the inquest.

The DPP have decided the threshold for a criminal trial has not been met. This decision will have to be explained to the family if they request it. I imagine now there will be a conclusion to an internal investigation as would be the norm.

His sister claims she opened the door to him and told the Guards he had mental health problems, her claim is she was ushered back into the house. Claims that were confirmed by the Gardaí.

And similarly we all saw the videos of them just looking out the window at him. Your own quote says that she only came out after Gardai had surrounded him. From what I recall of the video that was released at the time, he was not initially surrounded and had free access to the door. Is it the case that she only felt able to come out of the house once they had cordoned him away from the door? The videos doing the rounds at the time showed him between the guards and the door with nothing blocking him. And no guard near the door to "usher" someone back inside.

Edit: Actually I just saw one there from the final moments. As heartbreaking as it is, he was standing in the doorway when he turned and started to lunge at the Gardai. There appears to have been nobody between him and the house. The footage was recorded from fairly far away to be fair.

It is worth noting that there is a claim that 2 of the bullets fired went through a window of house and into the hallway.

Perhaps the Gardai don't have access to special bullets that know to automatically stop mid-air before entering a window if it is the window of a house?

In reality, the option that would have "solved this" more cleanly would have been to just shoot the guy much earlier i.e. as soon as he refused to stop on his long walk back from the park. Is that what you are advocating for? I wouldn't like to see that approach personally.

Your claim was the family didn't come out, his sister did and spoke to the the guards, this was confirmed by the guards.

Perhaps the Gardai don't have access to special bullets that know to automatically stop mid-air before entering a window if it is the window of a house?

They don't. But that is the point.

Armed Guards have to account for each and every bullet.

If 2 bullets ended up in hallway of a home where there is 3 people, that needs to be explained by the person who fired the bullets.

Jesus, the guy was ignoring orders from police to put down a weapon he'd been on a tour of his local area with causing mayhem.

By some of the stuff being posted here you'd swear the Gardai pulled him over while he was out doing voluntary charity work and shot him for no reason.

Nothing to do with the public or blm or any other such nonsense that people are trying to make it.

A violent armed man, was shot by a well trained member of AGS after all other options were exhausted. Shouldn't have taken so long for GSOC to investigate, they're a disgrace.

They can account for it if they like. The story (according to yourself) is that the man was not cornered. His family had opened the door to allow him into their house? They were not afraid of him and had calmed him down?

Now, despite him not being cornered, as is shown on video, he ran at Gardai and lunged at them with a knife. Non-lethal methods were deployed but ineffective. In the circumstances, the only option was to fire at him.

The claim that the door was open actually strengthens the Gardai's position of necessity in the circumstances.

What do you think of the video that shows him standing in front of his own door, with no gardai there actively ushering the occupants inside?

It can be the case that someone did open the door to say something to the Gardai at one point, while at the same time being the case that they did not want to go near the person or let them into the house.

What do you think the Gardai should do when there is an out of control person running at them with a knife - having already assaulted members of the public and refusing to cooperate for a couple of hours? After the non-lethal options fail. Should the Gardai ever even respond to calls about assaults by knife-wielding madmen or should they ignore them and let them continue whatever they are doing?

Regarding the moderator comments, as an aside, the first page won't load for me for this thread. Perhaps they want to fix that. Or is it just me?

He made no attempts to kill anyone

and you know this, and are 100% sure of this fact how exactly?

Okey dokey. There is not much point continuing if you are putting your own interpretation on written statements when actual video evidence might show your interpretation and assumptions to be incorrect.

Presumably by not watching the video which shows him lunging at people with a knife

clearly the Gardaí, instead of dealing with the situation as it unfolded in front of them, and making decisions based on that,

Should have organised a poll on boards, and made there decisions on that….

the guy had a knife, refused continually to drop it, pepper spray, and taser had no effect, so Garda resorted to their last option.

He didn't have to, he was armed with a weapon capable of killing someone. He had to be stopped. And he was.

What are your feelings on other deaths by Garda shootings?

You will have to define what you understand by "intervene".

The narrative that you are trying to imply, which is that the family came out and calmed him down before the Gardai pushed them back inside, is what appears to be without basis.

Now, to be absolutely clear, I am not blaming them in any way shape or form for what happened. The only person ultimately responsible was the tragic deceased.

Again I never suggested anyone tried to calm him down I wasn't there. That was your interpretation.

According to his sisters statement to GSOC she opened the door to him and told the guards he was suffering from mental health problems. She very much tried to intervene.

I have already posted the quotes twice.

Hattrick

Mr Nkencho's sister, Gloria Nkencho, will tell Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission (Gsoc) investigators that her brother knocked on the door and she answered.

Ms Nkencho will tell investigators gardaí had surrounded her brother by this stage and that she asked them to leave him alone and said he had mental health issues.

The sister was then ushered back inside the house by gardaí and the door was closed over but not shut. The deceased’s three siblings were in the hallway when the shots were fired.

To be honest I don't really see how you are struggling with this, it's hardly a mad concept to try get your head around.

Again I never suggested anyone tried to calm him down I wasn't there. That was your interpretation.

No. I said that that his family - quite wisely IMO - did not come out to calm him down. You took issue with that and said it wasn't true.

Don't forget that the Gardai were also responsible for protecting the family too.

You can post what you like. And interpret written statements how you like. You've admitted to not watching the actual video evidence. I don't see the point in you arguing blindly against people who actually have seen it.

Nope. This is what you said.

His own family - rather than coming out to calm him down - knew (probably wisely) not to go near him.

His sister answered the door to him and tried to intervene with the Guards.

I have absolutely no idea what video you are referring but unless it shows that interaction I have no idea what you are arguing about.

The narrative on this thread that his family were too terrified so they stayed in the house is false, that is an actual fact. Correct?

Again his sister answered the door to him.

That is a fact.

Just move on.

Get your head out of the sand and look at the video rather than imagining things.

I'm not wasting any more time arguing with you on this.

What is your point here of arguing blindly with your head in the sand?

I'm not wasting any more time arguing with you on this. But I will help you one last time and point out that nowhere in the statement does it indicate the sister opened the door to him. That is your imagination.

Mr Nkencho's sister, Gloria Nkencho, will tell Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission (Gsoc) investigators that her brother knocked on the door and she answered.

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