Internal cabling bike frame 'stops' & Using hoover to guide internal cables.

galwayguy85 · 26-04-2024 4:05pm #1

Got a new bike these times (disc brakes etc). Better in nearly every respect to what I had before, but I would still like to keep the old bike for rides in the winter time and/or bad weather (cycling is my main means of commuting).

Months ago, while doing some cleaning up of the headset, the handlebar stem slipped down and ripped one of 'stops' where the cables enter the frames - the rear brake cable, in this case. Can somebody tell me correct name?

Anyway, it was a brutal struggle to get what was remaining back out of the frame as there was almost nothing for a pliers to grab onto. Got it out in the end…

I have since decided to just replace all the major components (bar the front crank) on the bike and fit new brake and shifter cables.

You can see in the photo that I have nothing in to which I can put the rear brake cable (as it enters the down tube). The others are OK are still in place, but as I would like to replace everything anyway, I would like to know what these items are called and where one may buy them.

I've been to the LBS bike and they've given me a handful of "Jagwire End Caps" (4mm in this case) but I don't think that these are the ones I need (in this case). They seem a little shorter than what is already there (and I fear that getting one of them out again could be drama). 😀

There are some in the shifter cable hoods, but I guess that that is their main purpose?

Made another visit to the LBS and they gave me something a bit more specific to brake cable but these also seem to be incorrect… these also seem on the short side (and would be very difficult to remove as well).

The final question. As I effectually snapped the rear brake cable in two, I don't have an easy means of getting it back into the frame and and out the other side… the other cables are not a big deal as I can use a narrow plastic sheath to thread the old ones out and the new ones in again.

I've seen some having success with a thread and hoover. Tried it out myself using the kind of thread you might use to mend a small tear in a shirt but with limited success. The cable (tied to the handlebars) becomes taut but never comes out (using the suction from the hoover). Is there an optimal width/weight of thread I should be using? Last chance saloon here!

Thanks folks - sorry for the somewhat over-long post.

WL

galwayguy85 · 26-04-2024 4:07pm

Minor typo in the discussion title. it should be 'frame' instead of 'fame'.

I want to be famous for something other else than my inability to service my bike. 😁

ted1 · 26-04-2024 4:52pm

loop in a piece of string , push the cable through then pull on the string it’ll guide the cable towards the hole.

Like you are using a needle threader

07Lapierre · 26-04-2024 5:09pm

Could you run a complete outer brake cable housing from the shifter through the frame and all the way to the rear brake?

also, get yourself one of these.. saves a lot of stress: https://www.parktool.com/en-int/product/internal-cable-routing-kit-ir-1-3

galwayguy85 · 26-04-2024 5:42pm

Hi Ted, thanks. Problem is that the hole that brake cable needs to come out of is absolutely minute and at slight angle to the down tube itself (I understand the concept though). The question is more a case of getting a thread/cable that has the best dimensions (in terms of width, weight, density , friction and a bunch of other metrics). Sewing thread is only about 0.1 mm, I think I need something a little heaver/wider.

I don't think the internal routing kit will help me much (in this particular instance). Tried with a strong neodymium manget as well (on the new rear brake cable) but it was pretty underwhelming. The new brake cable is too stiff (and/or the two other cables in the down tube make it more difficult to apply the force accurately).

galwayguy85 · 26-04-2024 5:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122067377#Comment_122067377

Only the bare cable goes into the frame. No room for anything else.

sbs2010 · 26-04-2024 5:51pm

I might not have the problem properly understood but how about first sending in the cable outer. When its visible at the "out" hole, thread an inner cable it to it.

When you see the inner wire show up at the exit point, use a loop of thread to catch that and draw it (the inner wire) out of your exit point.

Then use the inner cable to pull the outer casing through your exit hole.

Also, is one of the two holes bigger or at a better angle than the other? If so, send the cable in the awkward hole and so you'll have more room at the exit point.

magicbastarder · 26-04-2024 5:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122067146#Comment_122067146

FTFY!

galwayguy85 · 26-04-2024 6:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122067546#Comment_122067546

Yup, the mechanics of all that are all understood. GCN (on YouTube) demonstrate how to do it. It might be the case that I'll need a bit of compressed air (at the 'in' hole) to help drive it (the thread) downwards and closer to the hoover (at the 'out' hole). Will get something on Amazon that is a little heavier/stiffer, such as fishing line. That might be a little easier to work with…

My main question is what I need to get to help get the various cables into the frame, so that the cable outers are secure (and not likely to fall out etc and that the cable inners are secure as well for maximum leverage). Googling 'cable ends' or "end caps" tends to return a lot of ambiguous results. Not looking for what normally goes into the brake/gear hoods, not looking for the small bit of metal that this crimped onto the very end of the cable when it leaves the derailleur mechanism etc.

galwayguy85 · 26-04-2024 6:23pm

Might better convey what I am looking for..

Screenshot 2024-04-26 at 16.34.51 copy.jpg

CramCycle · 26-04-2024 6:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122067377#Comment_122067377

I done this with my CX bike and it is a game changer, highly recommended.

CramCycle · 26-04-2024 6:50pm

You can also but cable sheath, thread it backwards over the old wire (unless it is already out) and this will do the same job for guidance as the cable housing.

CramCycle · 26-04-2024 6:51pm

Also, just no

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122067647#Comment_122067647

Also just noticed it is a Rose, email them, they will give you the part number. I had the same with a Rose a few years ago and they were super helpful. Hopefully that has not changed.

Fighting Tao · 26-04-2024 7:20pm

Hey @galwayguy85. I believe you are looking for Angled Frame Plugs. Jagwire product code CHA160 would probably do the job.

galwayguy85 · 26-04-2024 7:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122067804#Comment_122067804

Thanks! That is very likely the part (or something similar) that I am looking for.

galwayguy85 · 26-04-2024 7:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122067722#Comment_122067722

Will also give that a go. No wonder the local bike shop were so confused about things… I thought that this was a relatively common component and that they had swapped them out at some point when the bike was getting its annual tune-ups. I want to do this overhaul on my own though.

The new bike is a Rose as well. Disk brakes and integrated cockpit (kind of the norm for anything vaguely worth buying these times). I know that the day is coming when I will long for traditional internally routed cables.

8valve · 27-04-2024 1:56pm

I use a big feckoff magnet to guide inner cables out through frame holes. Readily available online (mines from a scrapped microwave oven!)

Ideally, as mentioned above already, remove outer casing at both ends of the frame and thread plastic cable sheath onto your inner wire, so that it hangs out of the holes at either end of the frame, the feeding your new inner cable through is easy peesy!

galwayguy85 · 27-04-2024 2:20pm

I think my €10 neodymium magnets were a little too ‘petite’ for the job. Got a feeling too that I may have crossed the rear derailleur cable and front derailleur cable around each other somewhere along the way, possibly defeating my hoover/magnet attempts.

It’s not a big deal to just cut the front derailleur cable altogether to remove that as a potential variable. Gravity does most of the work in his case anyway. There is a large enough ‘bay’ under the bottom bracket for him and rear derailleur cable buddy to exit the frame (but I will still use the sheath method for the rear derailleur cable).

Where the the rear brake cable exits the frame. Tight clearance.

The other internally routed cables… far wider.

galwayguy85 · 27-04-2024 2:31pm

The impasse will give me a good chance to get some more of the šhite of off the bike. A small blessing. 😛

galwayguy85 · 27-04-2024 5:13pm

if only there a was wire (of any description) to lock into, specific to the rear brake cable. The two surviving internal cables won’t represent any kind of problem.

I’ll hang into the old outer cable (between the hoods and the frame) for the rear brake. Use it later as a reference when cutting the new one.

Will hint to the missus that we need a better hoover and/or some better sewing threat.

Daroxtar · 27-04-2024 6:37pm

10lb fishing gut is your new best friend.

galwayguy85 · 27-04-2024 7:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122071119#Comment_122071119

Excellent, I had suspected that I was going to need something a bit more 'heavy duty'! Will give that a go for sure.

galwayguy85 · 06-05-2024 8:02pm

Everybody will be delighted to hear that I got the rear brake cable though the frame of the bike. Magnets, hoovers, sewing-needle thread and fishing line tested my nerves severely (and that of the gf, when I kept promising to be back in flat again after countless "only another 10 minutes" of broken promises).

Snipped off the cable to the front derailleur entirely (gravity does most of the routing in its case), pushed in the rear brake cable and it just came out where it was expected to. A genuine 'WTF' moment in my life! I guess that having 2 other cables in the frame made manoeuvres more complicated.

The 'guide' cable is shown in the photos. The main thing is that I can finally get my hands dirty with all the other bits and pieces at last! Aside from a euro or two for ferrules at the LBS, I have been freed from their financial servitude!! Pircks.

Internal cabling bike frame 'stops' & Using hoover to guide internal cables.

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