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Drainage gravel - driveway - will a roller fix it???

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  • 27-04-2024 8:56am
    #1
    Trondheim
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭


    Driveway was subject to flooding and the gravel had more or less worn away.

    I dug a trench and fitted perforated pipe, covered it with drainage gravel and then put a layer (1-2 inches) of drainage gravel on the entire driveway.

    I used a wacker to flatten it down.

    All fine, but now the movement of traffic is digging up the gravel, particularly where the trench was dug.

    A visitor had a low-slung BMW that got completely stuck in it and had to be pulled out.

    If i get a roller, will that pack the stone down tightly enough, or have i made a dogs dinner out of it?

    Thanks in advance for advice on how to fix this.

    Post edited by Trondheim on


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    #2
    The Continental Op
    Registered Users Posts: 6,668 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    One word - geotextile - or maybe three geotextile drainage fabric, which will aid a google search.

    https://tjomahony.ie/tencate-ts1000-4mx112-5m-geotextile-71r7072060.html

    and another link that explains its use

    https://www.hermeq.ie/woven-geotextile-fabric.html

    Wake me up when it's all over.



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    #3
    Trondheim
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Trondheim


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122069276#Comment_122069276

    Thanks for that. The job is done now and it would be a huge endeavour to take it all up and lay fabric underneath. Given that the stone is laid, is there a way to resolve the situation that doesn't involve starting again?



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    #4
    10-10-20
    Registered Users Posts: 7,058 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Hitting it with a whacker/roller isn't going to work as there aren't enough fines (small pieces of stone/sand) to cause the gravel to bind and what it will do is reduce or break down the existing gravel into dust. If the driveway is sloped, subject to flooding or rain-water movement then gravel probably wasn't the right solution in the first place and I'm not convinced the geotextile alone will resolve that, other than to create another separation or slip -layer, and may even promote movement of the gravel in certain circumstances.

    A combined geotextile and gravel matting is, in my mind, the solution - except I'm not a fan of mixing plastic elements into any type of environment - plus I have seen some of these mats breaking down into 2x3cm pieces (like half-credit-cards) and being washed out of the gravel.

    Have a look at roadstone's offering which uses geotextile and matting:

    https://roadstone.ie/product/gravel-stabilising-sheets

    You might get away with installing this in parts - move the stones off one section, fit the textile and matting, then evenly fill every pocket with fine gravel (look to see if you need a particular grade of fill-gravel) and then backfill the remainder. Rinse and repeat for the remainder of the driveway. 😉



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    #5
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    If the problem is a lack of fines to stabilise the gravel, then an obvious solution might be to just add sand.



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    #6
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,441 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    What's under the inch or two of gravel?



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    #7
    10-10-20
    Registered Users Posts: 7,058 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122069640#Comment_122069640

    Maybe, but if water runoff's causing erosion, it won't stop it - maybe requiring geo-matting at strategic points instead.



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    #8
    Trondheim
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Trondheim


    Thanks for the detailed response.

    Part of the driveway is on a slope, most of it is flat.

    The underlying ground is non-porous macamore soil. This is why I wanted to add the drainage.

    I appreciate what you’re describing is probably the right way to address this. However it is more or less a complete redo of the job in terms of labour and materials. This is clearly my fault for not planning this properly, but being in this situation, if there is an way of remediating the situation, even if it is not perfect, that would be my preference right now.



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    #9
    Trondheim
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Trondheim


    There is about an inch or two of hard compacted small stone and then just soil.



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    #10
    Trondheim
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Trondheim


    what grade of sand?

    Can it just be scattered on top and then go over it with the roller?



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    #11
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,364 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    A sideways slope, to drain the water to one side, should stop a long run developing. Maybe use inch to dust and whack it.



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    #12
    10-10-20
    Registered Users Posts: 7,058 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122071451#Comment_122071451

    Paving or grit sand (but not kiln-dried as that's not needed). It has a high resistance to flow and should bind. I'd just buy a small bag of it and test a 1m area over the course of a week or so. You might notice a difference in how the gravel flows during that test.



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    #13
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,911 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    It doesn't appear anyone's addressed the elephant in the room

    2 inches of gravel for a drainage pipe under an active driveway is simply not enough.

    It's a bad job. The pipe should be 4 times that beneath the surface no rolling will solve this.



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    #14
    Trondheim
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Trondheim


    2 inches of gravel over the rest of the driveway. The drainage pipe is buried much deeper than that.



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    #15
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,911 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122071721#Comment_122071721

    How deep ?

    It shouldn't be showing ever if minimum depths were applied.



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    #16
    Trondheim
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Trondheim


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122071727#Comment_122071727

    I think that i miss-communicated. The pipe is not showing.

    When i said that the traffic is digging it up, i was referring to the gravel, not the pipe.

    The pipe is securely buried, it cannot be seen.

    The issue is that the stone has not compacted and some cars find it hard to get purchase on the surface, and the traffic causes the stone to move around a lot, creating lots of stone in some areas and almost none in others.



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    #17
    Trondheim
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Trondheim


    ..

    Post edited by Trondheim on


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    #18
    Trondheim
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Trondheim


    …1

    Post edited by Trondheim on


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    #19
    Trondheim
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Trondheim


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122071549#Comment_122071549

    Thanks.

    So i just scatter it over the gravel? Should i use the wacker or roller on it along with the gravel?

    About how much sand to use / m2?



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    #20
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,067 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    If I've learned anything in 8 years of gravel driveway ownership, it's that a surface symptom is invariably caused by the layers underneath.

    In this case the issue is an unstable base layer where you've dug it up.

    Correct construction is to have larger rocks on each layer e.g. 6 inch, 2 inch, half inch, with blinding grit (angular crushed stone 5mm down) to stabilise the larger stuff.

    In the area you've dug up you have a single layer of gravel that's too fine.

    I don't think adding sand is going to do much.



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    #21
    The Continental Op
    Registered Users Posts: 6,668 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    OP if you have say two inches of pea gravel then thats your problem. While as Lumen states you need a proper base the wrong materials on the surface will move and never provide good grip. Some materials just won't wacker down because they aren't sharp enough.

    Wake me up when it's all over.



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    #22
    Trondheim
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Trondheim


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122072628#Comment_122072628

    So can anything be mixed with the drainage gravel (e.g., sand, grit etc) to give it grip, or does it all need to be replaced?



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    #23
    The Continental Op
    Registered Users Posts: 6,668 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    Fire up a picture of the gravel with a guide to size like a coin.

    The issue is primarily with decorative materials like pea gravel which has no sharp edges and just rolls around. That will always cause problems no matter what you bind it with. If you have an angular top layer say graded crushed rock that will bind anyway and bind better with a finer sharp binding material.

    Wake me up when it's all over.



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    #24
    Trondheim
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Trondheim


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122072718#Comment_122072718

    thanks. Will put up a pic later when home.



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    #25
    Trondheim
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭Trondheim


    image.jpeg

    This is the gravel I used.



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    #26
    standardg60
    Registered Users Posts: 4,649 ✭✭✭standardg60


    That pebble will always swim around a bit especially when newly laid, it should start to settle a bit with continuous traffic on the driveway.

    The main issue is filling the trench with it as it will never stabilize over that depth. Best to dig it back out and replace with 804 and dust on top, then a couple of inches of the gravel.



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    #27
    The Continental Op
    Registered Users Posts: 6,668 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    If you have two inches of that then there's your problem. Its graded too evenly so won't bind together.

    I'd test a small area with just builders sand worked into it. Just get a 25Kg bag and see how it goes.

    If you find that helps I see if you have any local quarries that will drop you off a load of quarry dust. That is free apart from the haulage cost and will work in well but might be too fine?

    Wake me up when it's all over.



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