30k speed limits for all urban areas on the way

Or maybe they've just realised that pandering to the hysterical minority isn't the best basis to be making laws on.

Don't you need a majority to get elected in a democracy? If so, it looks like plans to roll back the blanket 20MPH limits are pandering to the majority.

At any rate, it's only right and proper that these bizarre rules were changed as (part of the UK, most likely) Wales has broadly similar road safety data to Ireland.

Even without a posted 30kph limit, there's many things the councils can do to bring drivers speeds down such as reducing the width of roads, more traffic calming measures such as speed ramps, chicanes, mini-roundabouts, one way streets, segregated cycle lanes..

So the 25% increase in deaths over same period last year, probably even higher than that after three deaths in 24 hours, is specific to Ireland then.

Given that we have only about 6,000 smoking related deaths in the state each year which is quite low given the huge number of cigarettes smoked, I think it’s safe to say that all smoking regulations should be removed.

Ditto all laws relating to motorised vehicles.

Are you aware of the saying "hard cases make bad law?" In case it needs to be repeated, there are 3.2-3.3 million drivers in Ireland who have nothing to do with these hard cases.

Did you actually read the article you quoted?

It is said that 'hard cases make bad law;' but it can be said with at least as much truth that hard cases make good law.

To be crystal clear. I'd quite like it if the frequency of road deaths began to steadily decrease as the year goes on. I don't want more and more people to die in order to be able to bang the same drum. I really don't want to be banging this drum at all.

I'd have thought that was fairly obvious tbh.

I happen to agree with you on those points.

I just don't think it's unreasonable to question the narrative that "a 30km/h limit will save lives", which was the main focus of this proposal when it was first put forward, and which appears to have been the main focus of justification for the lower limits in Wales ahead of them being introduced last year too. By far the majority of road deaths occur in areas that won't be affected by a drop from 50 to 30. I'd suggest the narrative around the 30km/h limit should focus on those other things instead. In fairness, the "30K town" advert attempts to do it, but public reaction to that one hasn't been great.

Furthermore, I note that you specify urban areas yourself. It's a constant feature of this and other threads on Boards in the whole area of road safety that discussion is very Dublin-centric, or at least focused on Dublin and our cities too, with little consideration of rural Ireland.

So whatever about a 30 km/h limit in genuinely urban areas (i.e. city and large town centres), which have significant levels of pedestrian and cyclist traffic, I don't think it's unreasonable either to question the need for it in quiet rural villages, which might only see a handful of cyclists all day long, and where there may be no more than one or two pedestrians out at a time, walking safely on a footpath.

I know Local Authorities will have the discretion to instead maintain 50km/h limits in such areas, but realistically, that will involve every Local Authority having to make a whole raft of bye-laws, which would be a lengthy process if they ever even start it at all.

I understand it perfectly, as shown by my last paragraph, which you've even quoted.

Maybe I should have used the word "restore" rather than "maintain", but yes, I understand that Local Authorities will have the discretion to change the default 30km/h limit back to 50km/h where appropriate.

I'm also realistic enough to understand how Local Authorities work, and I know that this would be a "long finger" job in most cases, if it ever got done at all.

Sent to hell straightaway

You're certainly alone in your experience of being terrorised by marauding cyclists every time you step onto the footpath, so you may well be alone in this too.

I think you're probably straddling the line between perception of "safe" and any measurement of it, and it's difficult to reconcile the two.

A simple exercise to illustrate the point:

• Let's say 200 road deaths in a year, from a population of five million. That's just 0.004% of the population. In other words, 99.996% of the population won't die in a road crash that year.
• And let's say an average lifespan of 70 years (average lifespan being different from life expectancy). 70 x 0.004 means just 0.28% of those five million will ever die in a road crash. In other words, 99.72% of the population won't ever become a road fatality statistic.
• The perception might therefore be that the roads are "safe" in terms of fatalities, since the chances of any one person ever being killed in a road crash are so small.

But now look at things in a different way:

• 0.004% is one in 25,000.
• Picture yourself at a full house match or concert in the Aviva Stadium - approx. 50,000 people.
• You look around, and it occurs to you - "wow. Two of these people seated within a short distance of me right now will die on the roads this year. That's shocking."
• The perception is now very different, despite it being exactly the same measure.

I would offer the radical suggestion that we should punish the drivers responsible for these actions, not the other 3.3 million that had nothing to do with them.

Obviously, doing something like starting a road rage incident is completely indefensible. Edit: I just re-read the post and saw the last incident involved a cyclist. Point still stands though.

Who said anything about cyclists?

Well, you did. Quite frequently.

BTW I'm certainly not the only pedestrian who has noticed lawbreaking by cyclists being rather commonplace.

You're right, lawbreaking by cyclists is indeed commonplace, as is lawbreaking by motorists and lawbreaking by pedestrians. You frequently go to extensive lengths to excuse lawbreaking by motorists, which suggests that lawbreaking isn't really a big issue.

I'm equally disgusted by the attitude that the small number of victims in these cases can be used as cudgels against millions of people who have nothing whatsoever to do with these incidents. That is, not even being involved, let alone culpable in any of them. At least that's what it looks like some are doing.

All I'm looking for is proportionality. Wallpapering the country with 30kph speed limits is like using a wrecking ball to drive a nail.