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2024 Irish EV Sales

1568101121

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    What mileage are you doing that you need to charge two EVs every night?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    160km each way for me. 120km round trip for herself.

    My company moved office a few weeks ago. Before that I could get the train or bus to work. She was WFH until about 2 months ago and now back in the office again. It was 2 days a week, then 3, now 5.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,451 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Exactly, especially given that grid energy storage is really small here. Although a lot is in the pipeline, a modern renewable-ready smart grid is years away. In fact, the current grid would desperately need as many EVs to tackle this (peak shaving and reducing demand during peak) as it's more economical than storage (or export). But the gov is unable to capitalise on this. They should be pushing EVs day and night as we speak…



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,451 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Right but the longer they don't do it annually, the more shock effect it's gonna be in a few years. They missed a golden opportunity to bake in the increases on an annual basis (even 2% pa or something). It's gonna be interesting to watch how they solve it. Not many options left.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    In terms of usage you're an outlier on the high end. That's not representative of that 80% you referred to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,451 ✭✭✭McGiver




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,451 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Manufacturers have nothing to do with this, zero, nada.
    It's all government policy. The alpha and omega. See Norway etc.

    The only thing manufacturers could do to help is to finally implement ISO15188 (AutoCharge/ Plug And Charge) which has been in place for years, but the only one close it to is Tesla (although it's not ISO15188 solution). I've heard Kia-Hyundai working on it and Ford deploying it in the US. Nothing like that in Europe AFAIK. Charging an EV must be plug and charge, no hassle, payment, fobs, cards, apps. It must be easier than ICE. Which for Tesla already is. Why the carmakers don't care - I don't know, but I suspect it's because EVs are not their core business so they don't care.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭pah


    I've seen it all now, people on the boards motors forum arguing for the increase of VRT - a double tax in the ass as it is 😂

    Post edited by pah on


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,100 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Plug and Charge already works in Europe on BMW/MINI, VAG, Mercedes and Ford vehicles. Hyundai have started it with the Ioniq 6.

    I've not seen any word on Tesla supporting it or Stellantis yet.

    The biggest issue I see at the moment is in CPO support, I think that's where we need regulation to force compatibility.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,494 ✭✭✭sk8board


    environmental policies have always been expensive. They tend to be proposed in the good times and withdrawn in the bad times.

    very few environmental policies make any financial sense whatsoever; but ultimately that’s not what they’re for of course



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭djan


    Looking at the numbers and going off your calculations I'd argue you are just proving my point that the infrastructure is lacking and will need a massive upgrade across the board all the way to last mile street/house connections.

    While renewables are great and all, they are not reliable when compared to fossil or nuclear electric plants. There are nearly 2.5 million cars in Ireland at an average age of 9 years. You mention of potential to add capacity to get up to 200,000 EVs while not accounting for increase in demand for electricity in critical periods of winter cold temperatures and our push to heat pumps. The system may work for the time being but if the push to EV's really gains traction we will be screwed unless its a really sunny and windy day.

    It's a lot easier to buy an EV than plan, develop and build electricity infrastructure and alternate sources as the latter take years if not decades to do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    Its like a BMW driver asking for VRT to be increased on everything except BMWs. He thinks its a great idea.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The market here isn't underperforming due a lack of plug and charge.

    The manufacturers failings around issues of supply chain of parts, repairability warranty, software do feed the fud and consumer confidence though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Well it depends if they (the powers that be) want to encourage people to change to BMWs or not.

    It's not BMW drivers wanting change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I'm not sure how you read what was posted, that you quoted, and then come to the conclusion there's some sort of immediate crisis with the infrastructure.

    Post edited by Flinty997 on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,247 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    A BMW driver asking for a tax on using indicators. He thinks it's a great idea



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,389 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    certainly isn't letting facts get in the way of his hypothetical argument



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,451 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Plug and Charge already works in Europe on BMW/MINI, VAG, Mercedes and Ford vehicles. Hyundai have started it with the Ioniq 6.

    Which models and which networks? Just Ionity?

    Tesla supports it on SuC, obviously, but it's not ISO15188 AFAIK.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,451 ✭✭✭McGiver


    The market here isn't underperforming due a lack of plug and charge.

    I didn't say that. I said the only thing manufacturers could do to increase uptake is implementing plug and charge, it should be the default.

    The manufacturers failings around issues of supply chain of parts, repairability warranty, software do feed the fud and consumer confidence though.

    Strong disagree. None of this influences uptake significantly. Most people don't care about software quality. Warranty is already standard 7/8 years. Repairability is perfectly fine. The supply chain of parts isn't different from ICE, less parts are needed.

    It's all about gov policy, and in derivation also affordability. Affordability is also strongly influenced by policy until price parity is reached.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    People hear about those bugs, lack of parts, repairability, fud feeds of it. That's effects consumer confidence and thus sales.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,100 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    As far as I know Ionity is the only network currently supporting Plug&Charge in Ireland. ESB have limited support for AutoCharge but that isn't compatible with VAG vehicles as it's based on the charge controller identifier which isn't guaranteed to be unique per vehicle.

    Tesla's propriety system for vehicle identification on superchargers isn't Plug&Charge, and I'm not aware of any moves to support the standard on the supercharger network. I'd love for Tesla to operate as an eMSP and allow me to use Plug&Charge networks on my Model Y.

    It's not as simple as listing models as it can also depend on software versions, it's something you should check with the manufacturer, but the ones I listed all have current cars for sale that support the standard.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,494 ✭✭✭sk8board


    no major changes in EV sales Year to date with April included:

    Jan-Apr

    Pure BEV sales were -41% in April vs April 2023, (1000 v 1800).

    heres BEV sales year on year, Jan-Apr:

    The Seal, MG4 and M3 the biggest gainers in 2024 to date.

    Post edited by sk8board on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    Will be interesting to see how the ID4 sales do when the new model arrives in a few months. If there's a bounce it could drag the whole EV sector back close to 2023s record levels.

    2024 is 20% above 2022 levels, on track for the 2nd best year ever for BEV sales in Ireland



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,494 ✭✭✭sk8board


    it’s hard to know. Like all data, it can be interpreted in many ways. There is a clear “deceleration in the rate of acceleration”, as the economists would say :)

    7 of every 8 buyers are choosing something else - and if you exclude fleet and company EVs from the numbers (where BIK is a huge factor in the attractiveness of EVs), the reality is that the proportion of fully private sales that are BEV is considerably lower still.

    The future is electric, that’s actually beyond argument at this point - but clearly the amount of the national fleet that will be electric is going to be lower than expected and EU policy will have to adapt to that, as will manufacturers and infrastructure.

    Are we unique in the EU with this drop in EV marketshare?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,709 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    The collapse in sales is going to do strange things to the used market going forward. Assuming people who buy EVs that are 2 years old want to stay in an EV, they are going to be chasing a shrinking pool of cars. Maybe we will see newer cars stabilise in price while older cars struggle to find their third owners.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,044 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    personally I reckon I’ll get another year- two max out of my 2011 insignia, and then I’ll be in the market for a replacement second hand car.
    I regularly do 350kms- 400kms round trip journeys a couple of times a week.

    My budget would be about 15k max.


    There are plenty of ICE motorway cruisers that would tick all the boxes, but there are very few EV cars that would be capable of this for this budget.

    IMO this is the big problem with mass EV adoption.



  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭DrPsychia


    Some examples here

    Germany: -15.2% Q1 2024 compared to same period 2023 Source
    Sweden: -21.46% Q1 2024 compared to same period 2023 Source
    Austria: -3.94% Q1 2024 compared to same period 2023 Source



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,471 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I disagree, and would argue that we've now moved to the next phase, where now any use case can be catered for by the new market, and only the used market has limited options.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    For users like you who do 35000-40000 km a year on road trips alone moving to an EV may still be a while away in the price range you list.

    Do you do other shorter trips also or is it just these long trips? Your 2011 Insignia must have something like 500000 plus kilometres now and another 100k in couple of years. Respect!



  • Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭ColemanY2K


    Have you thought about fuel savings? Look at it this way. If you were doing 700 to 800km per week you'd save somewhere around €3k per year at current fuel prices. This is based on driving a 2022 or newer Tesla Model 3 (RWD), charging it at night (my night tariff is 18 cents). It would require a 10 minute stop at a SUC on the return trip. Over 4 years that's a €12k saving based on today's prices. The saving will likely be even greater given the current price trajectory of fossil fuel.

    The EV would only need a service every two years (sub €200) regardless of mileage whereas the ICE would need to be serviced twice a year at €250 a pop.

    Road tax is €120 for the EV versus multiples more for the ICE.

    A 2022 M3 can be picked up for circa 30k (perhaps less) and although outside your budget with the above savings taken into account it's certainly something to think about.

    🌞 7.79kWp PV System. Comprised of 4.92kWp Tilting Ground Mount + 2.87kWp @ 27°, azimuth 180°, West Waterford 🌞



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,044 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Fair enough but show me an example of an EV that can tick the boxes in the depths of winter at motorway speeds, and if you can I would genuinely consider it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,044 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Insignia has 330k kms on it but I haven’t had it from new.
    I would do shorter trips also that an EV would be grand for.
    I would be able to get an EV charger at the house but I wouldn’t have destination charging nearly all the time as the destinations are mostly rural sites.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,044 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    The Tesla costing 30k is twice my budget and would require a loan which would cost circa 650pm to repay.
    The repayments would wipe out the fuel savings.
    Budget is 15k unfortunately.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,471 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    For your budget? None. That's why I said none of the used market would do.

    New, there are plenty. My own car, a model 3 LFP has 300km of motorway range - I know as I have a 250km round trip on the motorway most weekends. They are just under 30k for the earliest used ones and just under 40k new.(the new one has 10% more range too).

    If you're doing high miles and write the car off to zero value, buying the model 3 would be cheaper than paying for fuel and 15k upfront cost, on a non EV.

    Now, if you just dont want an EV, that's fair enough and I respect that! (I have a couple of non EVs too!)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,044 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Ah grand I thought you were saying you disagree with me as there were examples of what I’m looking for.
    Apologies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭ColemanY2K


    Well it depends on whether the existing 15k you have is borrowed or not. Assuming not then borrowing the other 15k from the credit union over 4 years will cost €366 (8.25% APR 🤕) per month, less with AIB green loan.

    1200km a week is what I do sometimes which would cost me circa €50 (85% home charging). I currently shell out close to €140 on fuel.

    As soon as I'm able to I'll be jumping into a 2022 M3.

    FTR...these are my workings based on my usage, tariff, car etc...

    🌞 7.79kWp PV System. Comprised of 4.92kWp Tilting Ground Mount + 2.87kWp @ 27°, azimuth 180°, West Waterford 🌞



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    I'd say the Hyundai Kona 64kWh would come close and there are a few on sale right now around your budget.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,044 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    In the depths of winter at motorway speeds though? (120kph)



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,451 ✭✭✭McGiver



    I don't know what the FUD people hear, probably they hear FUD😀 I'm not aware of any issues with parts…

    Manufacturers can't do much to increase uptake apart from getting more efficient and competitive. But they are let's say lukewarm. There are exceptions like Volvo or JLR that are going full electric but those are small or niche brands.

    Why are China and Norway so successful in EV uptake? Because of gov policy not because of manufacturers doing a or b.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    A 350k to 400k round trip would be pushing it, but it's hardly the end of the world to pull in for a fifteen minute splash and dash on the way home.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,317 ✭✭✭✭josip


    I'd say you'd be better off in 2 years time rolling over into another diesel for a few more years. To pick up the same as you have now wouldn't cost more than 5k, maybe even less?

    https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/opel-insignia-nct-tax-only-2950/36755951?campaign=3



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,451 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Decent calculations. Just be careful with the residual value, that's very hard to predict.
    EV prices are expected to drop, also the battery tech is evolving fast. This is one of the reasons for FUD too IMHO. It's perceived as a bit risky to buy a developing tech. Car is a depreciating asset. It is challenging to estimate the depreciation for a car tech in a rapidly evolving tech & regulatory landscape. So much has changed since 2018 in EVs, will the change be smaller, the same, or larger between 2024 and 2030? Who knows. Saying that the same applies to ICE in the current rapidly evolving landscape too - who knows what taxes will be put on ICE or fossil fuels in 2-6 years?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,451 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Interesting, I'd like to see that actually in practice on Ionity because supporting a standard doesn't automatically mean the car can actually take the payment itself, it must have SW for that i.e. active user account with a card linked to it just like a Tesla.

    But I'm talking more about the UX, not only about the Plug Ang Charge/AutoCharge as per the ISO 😀
    Basically - plug, charge, and drive away, the car does the payment, and no apps or cards are needed.
    Tesla does that on the SuC, ISO or not ✅ Yes, it can't do it elsewhere, but neither can PnC cars do it outside of Ionity.

    All manufacturers must provide the same UX by default. Charging must be as easy or even easier than refuelling an ICE car. All the fobs, apps, cards etc are too complicated. Unless and until they can work with the CPOs or at least with their own Ionity and fully implement it they are worse than Tesla in UX.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,494 ✭✭✭sk8board


    ”now any use case can be catered for by the new market”

    If this were even remotely true, we’d all be buying EVs.

    Many will claim it’s an education gap and ‘EV fud’, but in reality their use cases are not actually catered for.
    we bought two petrol cars in our house in Jan and March, purely because our use cases were not at all catered for by the new EV market. again its just my own experience, a sample size of one



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Perhaps in your case. But with around 60k BEVs in a fleet of around 2.5 million, there has to be a hell of a lot of use cases out there that do work.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,494 ✭✭✭sk8board


    well obviously - EVs are perfect for anyone with the money to spend and can work with within the range.

    the county of registration for EVs reflect the private commuter use case, largely. ie it’s very much disproportionate to Dublin and surrounding commuter counties.


    on a related note:

    https://x.com/GerHerbert1/status/1785637551744692647

    A large increase in imports in April, but only 3% of them were EVs



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,389 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    what's your use case that required two ice vehicles?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I've learnt so much about ICE car sales and what ICE cars people have since I started reading the EV threads.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    The money shouldn't be an issue. There are thousands of used EVs for sale on DD ranging from bangernomics prices all the way up to 50-60k. Massive choice in the 10-20k range too, Zoes, Leafs, Ioniqs, eGolfs, Konas etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    If someone posted "…I prefer the convenience of 800km range and 3-4min refill time…". do you reckon they bought diesel or petrol?



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