Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

I have gone past disillusionment.

I am going to leave Ireland later this year. In my mind, its finished.

they spent close to million on bringing in Ukrainian pets. they won't give the square root off 6 ****, they have magic money trees and Irish taxpayer. Ill say it agin, why cant they provide, green field sites with heavy duty tents, showers and canteens like what we have now.

The Rural Independents called for a referendum on the new EU Migration policy. I agree - the government have a get out clause with this, to say to the EU that we need to consult with our citizens. This would allow then for either copper fastening of current policies or more likely to justify a complete new approach by the Irish state.

It's a joke that it's suddenly now possible when it should have been many moons ago and indicates a Goverment in absolute panic.

Forget our own homeless issues, let the folks who just come in leap frog the queue as we can't be made look bad on the world stage.

No way am I on board with this or willing to put my money down on a house deposit this year. I'll wait 18 months to see. We could have a very different country by then.

I'm not opposed to deporting those who have their claims rejected, but realistically I wouldn't expect it to be hugely effective. I believe the EU and US have been trying various carrot and stick approaches for at least 20 years to little success. Probably best stick with prioritizing deportation of criminals and voluntary deportations.

As for my proposals, these aren't meant to 'fix' the solution. There is no fix, the only way to change long term is increasing living standards and security in the global south. For this, that only needs to be enough to tackle the worst poverty and abuses, so that people aren't so desperate to leave.

Let me go through your responses to the list.

1. It's a way of encouraging people to chose other Western countries based on honesty and transparency. I don't think it would get the same pushback as harder measures to move people elsewhere likely would.
2. I think this could make a difference. I guess it depends how many you believe are coming for economic reasons.
3. Agreed it won't be cheap, but accommodation can be basic. Long term it will reduce costs massively.
4. Yes as an exploration, but with a lengthy time spent in community service. Makes visa/work permit more attractive.
5. Harder for dr's but I think it would make a difference for construction/nurses. Could include stipends for training and education with extra conditions of staying and working in these industries in long-term. Same stipends could be available for Irish student nurses and apprentices.
6. Has to a huge priority at EU level.
7. Not sure what you mean?
8. Of course apply to far-left too, but I haven't seen any crimes on this scale linked to far-left in Ireland. Have you?

Sadly I fully agree. I’m an Irish parent of 2 young kids 9 & 11 yrs old. I personally will be living abroad by the time they’re 18 yrs old and effectively adults.

The rolling education advise I give my children is to learn 2 foreign languages minimum. I already intermittently speak French (and translate) with them to hopefully create at least one language of familiarity to them when they start learning it in school.

The only future for their generation is going to be emigration and foreign language will cement a better career potential abroad.

It’s extremely sad that it’s come to this realisation (I personally realised it years ago) as Ireland had so much going for it until the political cancer of corruption came in to leave zero practical options to turn the situation around.

@jack of all - "taxpayer's money is being squandered on providing for individuals who should not be here at all. "

From what I gather anyone from anywhere in the world especially from persecution or war torn countries have a right via various bodies and conventions that Ireland is signed up to .. to come here and apply for asylum. The only way around that one is for Ireland to leave the EU and sign off from these various conventions.

You may be implying that most applying for asylum here are economic migrants & should not be here? That may be the case, but the system in place from Irish government as is elsewhere is it has to process all due to above international things we are signed up to.

If there is fault its this and past governments handling of the migration / asylum issue. The long drawn out legal appeals system etc .. this could be seriously stream lined. Being reactive and basically up to recently, ignoring the migrant issue is a thing here politically. So in my view if blame is to be apportioned it is in the main at the door of governments past and present policy around this issue, not the migrants themselves who are coming here and from there perspective using the system in place. Re our past crazy system look at the direct provision system.

Be under no illusion - relative to the rest of Europe WE aint seen nothing yet in comparison to what the rest of Europe has to deal with over last few decades ( Remember the vast migration of Syrians to Merkels Germany OR Greece, Italy, Spain )

Also be under no illusion - this is going to get far far worse. As i keep saying here we are/will have mass migration from equitorial and south mediterranean regions, middle east - purely due to climate where these places now are reaching sustained temps of 45 deg+ … humans - biologically, medically - cannot survive in this .. add fires and extreme weather, flooding.

And also add WAR - Did you know we have a major worst war since WW2 at the moment on the continent of Europe for the last 2 years +? Russia's invasion on Ukraine, this has not gone away you know. This BTW is not going well for Ukraine at the moment. Do you think IF Ukraine falls that Russia will just stop & you will be left untouched by further Russian moves into what we call western Europe? From this and if Russia prevail in Ukraine expect millions more Ukrainians flowing west to us - Ukraine population is/was 40m+

If they applied for asylum in the UK, I don't believe they are entitled to then apply for asylum in another country.

You can't just have asylum tourism where people go from country to country chancing their arm.

Before the current fiasco, we had just about a manageable level of genuine migrants. Taking in massive amounts from the UK and housing them is just not sustainable or morally right. Its just the UK dumping their problem on us and Harris rolling over and accepting it, instead of telling them to get lost.

Regards Ukrainian refugees, that is a separate issue as I don't believe a single one would be eligible to be sent to Rwanda from the UK. Those eligible to be sent are likely those coming from relatively safe countries or whose case is not clearcut - eg someone coming from African or Asian countries where its not clear what they are fleeing.

I think they would reject the Danish model when they see what's actually involved.

I can't see that scale of indefinite detention going down very well. Especially with the cruelty attached with the 'motivation detention' approach.

From an officer in one of these centers.

“Our role here is not, as in imprisonment, to minimize the negative consequences of imprisonment. On the contrary, the negative consequences are an implicit part of the construction of these centers.”

https://jacobin.com/2021/02/denmark-zero-asylum-immigration-refugees

I can't see that Irish people would go for an approach that would keep an Irish child from their dad either.

https://www.fairplanet.org/story/surviving-denmarks-open-prisons-for-undeportables/

Even if there was public support for this, it still looks a very risky strategy. There's no proof that this approach does anything other than push IPAs towards other EU countries, the repercussions of which are not something economically I think we can consider.

After that it's leading to a 'race to the bottom' approach amongst EU countries. Failures of other deterrent based approaches would suggest that were these approaches widely followed in the EU they would simply cancel each other out. Europe as a whole, even with these measures would still be more attractive to a lot of potential IPAs. We'd then be faced with the implications of holding large amounts of people indefinitely, people living undocumented, kids growing up excluded from mainstream society etc.

You mentioned Norway and Sweden too but I haven't seen that their approaches are as extreme as Denmark's.

Maybe put the IPAS processing centre in the middle of Monaghan or somewhere isolated in a border county. Everyone has to go there to get a bed and whatever other goodies are ladled out. Garda checkpoint half a km away from this place.

Similar at Dublin Airport. You will be processed if you produce an airline ticket, but back up to the rural processing centre if not.

I dunno, I'm turning into someone I never thought I would be, which is "make it harder and harder for migrants" This whole debacle has changed people often into something they never thought they'd be. I'm still trying to see both sides but failing miserably most of the time.

I've seen several mentions on housing for IPAs being prioritized over housing for Irish people.

In one sense that's a very fair point.

On the other hand, let's face it, providing any real solutions for housing problems under an FFG government was never going to happen anyway. Derelict buildings were never going to be used as affordable housing for Irish people or the Irish homeless, at least not at anything more than the level of a token gesture.

FFG made their approach perfectly clear a few months back when they stated they didn't want to lower housing costs for fear their base would lose value on their assets.

I still think the most likely outcome from the next election is another FFG government, this time supported by a 'further to the right' coalition. So another 5 years of this approach to housing essentially.

@thomas 123 "You have brought up this theory of the equator becoming inhospitable- have you any links to any evidence"

This from 2020, but a simple search for equator uninhabitable on google will find lots more, inc more recent.

About the 40deg+ temps and human body, well documented and not a theory. We are already seeing these temps in the med and middle east and Africa last 2, 3 years. Climate migration is not a theory

You dont mention Ukraine / War related migration. We could be in receipt of alot more of that depending on how russia progress. I imagine IF Ukraine was not invaded and we did NOT receive 100k+ Ukraine refugees then this current migrant issue here would not be such a big thing

This is not an immigration issue any longer in my eyes.

It's a domestic security issue. The security of the state is under attack as the borders are down and the Government are no longer working with domestic security requirements as a priority. This is literally one of their main functions. The Government have gone way outside the mandate provided by the people here and are now actually going against it.

When I say security, I talk about ability to provide all the things that make this country a wonderful place to live.

Safety, security, housing, infrastructure, services.