Naval Service General Discussion - Fleet, Manpower, Policy

The author's name didn't ring any bells in terms of defence so I had a look. This seems to be his first piece on anything Irish defence related, but he has other stuff like; "I have a great idea for men ahead of International Womens Day…" and "Dublin has a historical deficit of streets named after women".

Looks like he has a particular axe to grind.

On Naval Social Media they show crews working on the IPVs and also say Armamwnt Upgrade. Is that a GPMG or have they installed the same system as the Mowag cars?

A GPMG wouldn't be considered an armament upgrade for that vessel. They are already fitted with mounts for 3 12.7mm HMGs. The photo shows the hoist fitted to remove ammunition from the ready use locker. You don't need a hoist for a box of MAG belts. You also wouldn't need a hoist of that type unless you wanted to move a large ammo box for an uncrewed weapon.

Another photo shows Inflatable liferafts being loaded back in their mounts by a mobile crane ashore, as both vessels get prepared for sea.

While the ships were originally fitted "for but not with" such a system, all the relevant plumbing was removed before they left NZ. It would have tied us into an Israeli Made system that we were not already using (Rafael Typhoon).

My money is on Rhino, until Rhino's are due for replacement. They are relatively new, in gun terms, and the IPV deck is already strengthened to mount anything up to 40mm.

Unless of course said use involves actually hitting something.

There's a reason any live firing of the Rh202 you'll see involves very short bursts. It's a dumb bomb Vs smart bomb scenario.

Very stupid question here:

Could it be possible that the P70s are meant to be a test bed for a remote gun system that is currently not in use? As in “evaluate the system’s performance before placing a wider order and rolling it out to the fleet at large”? Given the apparent restrictions on the Defence Forces’ current remote controlled gun systems with regards to naval use, at least if I’ve read this thread correctly, that would make quite a bit of sense to mine. Besides, the acquisition of the P70s would have given the opportunity to get such a gun system with relatively minimal scrutiny, since a lot of money had to be allocated to the purchase, transfer and refitting of the ships anyway.

As I said, this is likely a very stupid idea, but I’ve seen stranger things happen…

The plumbing was there, in NZ service for a Rafael 30mm system, same as on NZ opvs, but it was never fitted. The control console was fitted in the bridge though. I'm reliably informed it was removed before the ships made the journey north though, as the paperwork around NZ selling an Israeli made system to the Irish state is more trouble than its worth.

That said, while fitting the spare Rhinos may be an option, the rhinos themselves are trouble at the moment, ever since some bean counter decided the NS should use the leftover stock from the AML 20s recently retired by the Cavalry Corps. While the gun may be the same in all means possible, the fact one ammo lot of 20 x 139mm was sourced from the outset to be used by a land based vehicle, and not to be used at sea stored at sea in a mount designed for use at sea, the far too frequent stoppages may have told them this may not have been the best plan. There would be 6 spare Rhinos in stores at the moment. 2 from L.E. Eithne, installed in 1984. Covered when not in use, but otherwise spending their lives at sea. All the rest, mounted on existing ships, or stored having been removed from the P40s, are ex German Navy, and were found on their major warships from early 90s until being replaced with the Automated 27mm Mauser MLG27 mounts in the 2000s. Thats not old in gun terms though. The 40mm L60s that were found on the P20s before their L70 upgrade all had manufacture plates from the late 1940s. The L70s all came from the 1950s.

I wouldn't rule out them being fitted though. They fitted a new Bofors L70 to P20, 2 years before she was decommissioned. All the Oerlikons fitted to the rest of the P20s as they were introduced in the early 1980s, had been replaced by GAMBOs in the 1990s, before getting their Rhinos in the 2000s. Its not a big deal to swap, once your deck is fitted for it on day 1.

better 4/5th year classes I would say, if it’s leaving cert unless you get them early in the year many will have already picked their likely third level/employment areas.

If they want a 2k Navy they badly need to get the East Coast base up and running and even that North western base. The better geographical spread the better chance of getting personal.

If they had a base in Donegal they would have no problem getting crews from Sligo to Derry.

The 28th Battlion is proof it can be done.

The east coast base won't be in Dublin. It'll be somewhere like Wicklow, Arklow or even Rosslare Harbour. There's nowhere on the west coast apart from the pier in Rathmullan that is of any use. You need access to sea at all tidal states, the only other option is Foynes, and that's too busy as a commercial port, and too close to Cork to make a significant difference, operationally.

It won't happen until there are staff to spare to run this remote facility.