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Young losing their IQ advantage over old ( the Times )

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭yagan


    A UK based study too, so projecting onto a very different society.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,941 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    There’s a lot of very boring middle-aged men who seem to spend their fairly pitiful lives complaining online about all the exact same things: “wokeness”, immigration, women, political correctness, modern music, public service broadcasting, family entertainment shows etc. Young folks are the latest thing to bash. Best ignored. It’s what boiling their piss in the first place.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,861 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Indeed. It seems intent on following the Telegraph's descent into madness and inanity.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,621 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    again, the study was done in the UK but based on (IIRC) 60 research papers. we don't know where the primary research was done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭yagan


    More reason to criticise those who project the headline unto every generation in every society.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,412 ✭✭✭Shoog


    When the Times deliberately misrepresent the study to pander to it's geriatric demographic we have entered a twilight zone where getting the rise out of some easily offended people seems more important than informing them. The Times was once the pick of the Tory press - now is fighting in the gutter for a dying pool of readership.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,430 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    in fairness young people where objectively healthier, fitter and ate better up to the 60's and 70's. Between the food turning into poison and the internet/social media distorting people's view of reality it wouldnt be a leap to say IQ might be dropping on some kind of average. The modern age is great but not for everyone

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,412 ✭✭✭Shoog


    But that's not what the research is actually saying. Its actually saying as a society we are on agrigate getting more intelligent. You certainly would get that from the headline.



  • Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    The opposite is true, lead being everywhere (paint, petrol, pipes etc) had a massive impact on IQ until it started being phased out around the 80s.

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,430 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    "Believe the Science" , depends what you are measuring and what numbers are hidden in the averages. I'd still posit that if a lot of important biological/social variables have turned negative for young people , then by whatever rounded variable one describes as IQ is not likely to be going the other way.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,861 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    This is just a lazy dismissal. If you want to posit alternate metrics, go ahead.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,412 ✭✭✭Shoog


    The only conclusion about young people that can be drawn from this research is that young people have stopped getting more intelligent as they had been for decades.

    There is probably a ceiling to how intelligent a persons DNA allows so a plateau at a high level is not surprising.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,430 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    would you defend the opposite, I think Im on safer ground

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,861 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,430 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,488 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    I did not get a so called "pocket" calculator until my final couple of years at school. I learnt my maths from pounds, shillings, pence, lbs, stones etc.

    99% of my day to day maths was done in my head. Half a century later and that's still the case. There's a lot to be said for applying logic, but that typically is an attribute you pick up from doing things, rather than getting a machine to do it for you.

    Nowadays it seems all about knowledge and less about understanding.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,327 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    People exercised more out of necessity, not the gym but they also ate more calories decades ago. These days people generally exercise less. I’d say the younger generation exercise more than previous current generations due to social media and appearance being more important. The standard of food and overly processed crap is a bigger problem though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,408 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    honestly I work with data and do I think all this data has improved the way we do things. hard to justify in a lot of cases.

    • Approximately 328.77 million terabytes of data are created each day
    • Around 120 zettabytes of data will be generated this year
    • 181 zettabytes of data will be generated in 2025



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    Its fascinating the amount of it. The whole concept of BIG DATA ( sets ) and the very important and very useful info gleaned from it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,412 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Why should people have to learn skills which are better achieved by machines. It sounds really important to do mental arithmetic but ultimately a calculator does a better job with more accuracy faster. Very few scientists actually do any mental arithmetic because they use tools to do arithmetic for them. What is important is to be able to accurately guestimate a result as a way of verifying the probability of a calculators result been accurate - that remains a critical skill.

    The very definition of been a sapient ape is the ability to use tools and each tool we acquire allows us to do more technically advanced things with less resources.

    There is always going to be nostalgia for the way we did things on our youth but it's really a bad way of looking at the world.

    What is a great take home from this study is that the wealth of information readily available to elderly people is helping to keep them more mentally agile than ever before - as a direct result of information technology.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    I think the simple point is like say a muscle the Brain also needs constant exercising / mentally. This apparently helps with likes of dementia, a thing being "Stay mentally active". Likes of mental arithmetic, critcal thinking, creativity etc

    If AI and machines take this all away from us, is that a good thing??

    Now you may argue if AI/Machines take over all of these mental tasks it frees up our brain to do alt mental tasks. But i would argue humans tend to be lazy and not want to make an effort if they dont have to

    Anyway - I know its an old one - but i am always facinated when the price of something at a till is say €4.20. I hand a Fiver with a 20c and sometimes the person at the till looks at me puzzled ( Maths alert :D ) - odd one has given me 80c back :D



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,327 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    File sizes have gotten bigger for the most content, higher image quality and more streaming data. More people communicate more and through data but the files being larger means the data size has gotten exponentially bigger.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,861 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Why would AI take this away? You can still learn and exercise.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    Its all BIG DATA .. the more of it the better inc images and streaming. Its what AI is run on and makes AI possible? Coupled with data processing software and systems that are now powerful enough to handle and parse this data for previously impossible insights

    Big data is a combination of structured, semi-structured and unstructured data that organizations collect, analyze and mine for information and insights.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    In my same post i said - Now you may argue if AI/Machines take over all of these mental tasks it frees up our brain to do alt mental tasks. But i would argue humans tend to be lazy and not want to make an effort if they dont have to?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,861 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Your post assumes that people don't have interests which is patently wrong.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,412 ✭✭✭Shoog


    This very research indicates that the opposite is happening, the mental stimulation offered by IT is keeping dementia away from the elderly.

    There is always a moral panic whenever a new technology surplants an old one, it happened with books, it happened with cinema and TV.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    Im not panicked with AI, bring it on, its great and hugely interesting. I am in IT myself. I am also a musician/band/recording regularly. I am watching with keen interest where AI is in the music biz at the mo and trying out Music AI tools. Recently used one where all i had to do was specify track genre type and what the track may be about lyrically ( it wrote the lyric ). I was impressed, in space of 10 mins I had 3 different tracks with choosen vocal ( a selection of AI singers male, female ). These tracks with a bit of cleaning up could sit well on likes of spotify. SO - really I dont need to bother creating new tracks anymore in my DAW / Sequencer software, nor play my guitar etc - why would I when i could gain acceptable results in 10 minutes via AI? Powerpoint Music :D

    I have heard similar to above from many known musicians, same occured with Hollywood writers. The answer from the musicians was all AI tunes need to be marked as AI developed on likes of Spotify and Tic Toc. Really - I dont see that making a blind bit of a difference because a good passible tune is a good passible tune and a listener really doesnt give a fck if its produced by an artist spending hours creating in a recording studio or produced in 10 minutes BY ANYONE via freely available cloud AI app.

    If anything I am curious watching all this and how it pans out. AI produced music and hit tracks is a god send to the music industry bean counters and they would be fools not to completely run with it to the detriment of actual musicians .. who needs these costly musicians and studios?

    "There is always a moral panic whenever a new technology surplants an old one"

    Yip and it happened with music in the 90s with MP3, FREE MP3 music on the internet ( legal or not ). It set music on a downward spiral where its Value and worth is concerned. Why pay for it? A great Q .. ans - dont bother, just go to Youtube for example

    I will add this - Last while I am more and more using a plugin called SCALER 2 ( from pluginboutique ). AI driven chord structuring tool which is a fantastic ideas tool to come up with in key alt chord sequences you may not think of



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,824 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Here it is with the paywall removed. (using archive.is)

    https://archive.is/Hi1ws

    It was just general commentary really

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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