OK'(ish) paid job with almost no commute time OR a better-paid job with long commute

galwayguy85 · 06-05-2024 1:34pm #1

Irish lad living in Germany, speaks the language reasonably OK, been here ages with my partner. Years of experience in IT, a father to 9 month-old baby and a job with a somewhat so-so salary (although only a short bike away).

A short description of where I am!

Been on the hunt for a better paid job - new circumstances in my life! In a somewhat dull IT job (over-qualified and underpaid) right now. Have been anxious to get out of there a while despite having 'nice' colleagues, a boss who is reasonably agreeable and days when there is absolutely nothing goes on - a dream for many. I feel massively under utilized. Routinely offer to do tasks above my normal pay-grade but it never translates into a potential promotion etc etc.

Another employer in the area of IT has offered me a job with a salary about 15-20% higher (and a better holiday allowance) than what I have right now. The only snag is that it would mean a 15 minute commute to the nearest train station, a one hour train ride (assuming I don't need to change along the way) and then a 5km bus ride to whatever industrial estate they operate from - I don't know how frequent the buses run. And of course, that must all be repeated on the way home. On the road for 3+ hours (worst-case scenario). They have offered to pay for the monthly train ticket.

I don't drive (not a choice I have consciously made) and my partner works in a neighboring town with a job that doesn't lend it self to upping sticks easily. So, this is where I am probably going to be for a while yet.

Do I take the job that pays more (at the loss of work/life balance, time with my child and partner and easy kindergarten arrangements) for something that might drive me bananas in the long term but will afford us the chance to rent a larger flat etc? Home-office has been suggested of two days a week, but I am certain that this not remain the case indefinitely.

What would you do? Thanks.

SteM · 06-05-2024 1:41pm

No way would I take the longer commute with a 9 month old around to be honest. I know it's a cliche but you only get time with them when they're young once.

893bet · 06-05-2024 1:41pm

20 percent pay rise will be eaten up by some of the commuting costs plus additional tax.

Plus 3 hours travel time.

Easy No.

A larger flat won’t make you happier. Being gone to work before your child wakes and maybe home after they go to bed will make you miserable.

06-05-2024 1:41pm

I absolutely wouldn't unless I desperately needed the extra cash. If you work a 8 hour day adding 3 hour commute is basically adding 37% more working hours for only 20% increase in pay.

Get Real · 06-05-2024 1:47pm

I'd advise you to value your time on an after tax basis per hour (this is different for everyone) but whatever it'd take for someone to hand you in cash if they said "will give you this to wake up 1hr earlier tomorrow" or "will give you this to miss an hour with your child this evening"

Work out what the pay increase would be after tax if you accepted the job.

Say, moving this job took 15 hours per week away from you sleeping/looking after child/cooking, going for a run or simply putting the feet up.

If thats worth, say 10quid an hour to you, you want to see your take home pay increase by 600 a month to make it worth it.

10quid might be too low(all depends on the person) say it's 20quid, will this job increase your take home pay by 1200 a month?

Basically, whatever you value your time at, if the corresponding increase in take home wages is worth it, go for it.

Danzy · 06-05-2024 2:00pm

No or little commute even if it was with a pay cut.

galwayguy85 · 06-05-2024 2:01pm

In Germany, about 1/3 of your income is gone before you see it - that's how it is right now. It may be higher for this job (on the basis that is better paid). I will need to clarify with him what the net income is (a sound bunch I am sure, but the logistics could be awkward).

galwayguy85 · 06-05-2024 2:08pm

Yeah, I'm beginning to get the feeling that I could be digging a hole for myself here! Coming to work in a new job with my nerves worn to a frazzle! Confirmed what I what suspected. Will look for something a bit closer to home or is mostly home office.

Becoming a dad has already sucked a lot of free time out of my life. Those be the brokes.

RurtBeynolds · 06-05-2024 2:45pm

What would the commute be like if you had a car?

If your commute would be significantly reduced via car then maybe now is the time to get a licence. I couldn't imagine having a toddler and not having the convenience of a car tbh.

Oscar_Madison · 06-05-2024 2:58pm

So is it 15% or 20% pay increase? You’d want to get that clarified?

Does it bring you into a new tax bracket? Ie 20% tax vs 40% tax rate?

Holidays more or less?

Pension, medical benefits or other benefits? Especially if these aren’t been paid in current job.

Short to medium term goals? Might this new job help you reach them better, faster …or not?

Would you drive a scooter? Would that help you get there? Ie cheaper to run and own than a car.

Just a few questions to consider. As someone pointed about above, a car might get you there in 1/2 the time especially will cut down on the waiting times for the train and bus.

2 days home, 3 days in office with 20% more pay, potentially better promotion opportunities and maybe better benefits such as holidays , medical care, pension? If that was the deal, and you could sort the commuting then yes I’d go for it.

You might find your skills in IT are drifting somewhat so do watch that too

Ezeoul · 06-05-2024 3:08pm

That commute simply isn't worth it, and the timing couldn't be worse with a young baby.

No, stay where you are for now - but keep looking for something else.

notAMember · 06-05-2024 3:27pm

I think you need to consider the longer term prospects a little more.

you’ve already described your current job as relatively dead end. Are you ambitious and want to develop your career? Does the new role offer that? is it worth some short term pain (commuting 3 days a week) to take a step in that direction?

can you work on the train, shorten day a little?

Tippbhoy1 · 06-05-2024 3:44pm

If you’ve any career ambitions I would say take the job, but have a care plan with the bird and make sure she is also bought into it. Try get two if not three days a week wfh written into the contract.

And learn to drive as a priority. You’re limiting your options straight away in work and life.

CrazyEric · 06-05-2024 3:51pm

Just as an alternative option, have you tried explaining to your current employer the problem? There may be a pay rise available if you ask for it, there may be a way to utilise you better and the short commute while starting a family is a blessing in disguise.

bucketybuck · 06-05-2024 4:11pm

Thats an awful commute, and not just for the time it would take. Switching between various forms of public transport is a very real ball ache even before you get to the nearly 2 hour journey it would take.

I would want a lot more than 20% extra before I would even consider that.

galwayguy85 · 06-05-2024 4:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122103515#Comment_122103515

I think I'll go with what you are saying.

galwayguy85 · 06-05-2024 4:14pm

I would jump at the chance to drive - without divulging to much, circumstances do not allow me to. No driving bans etc! Something else entirely.

Padre_Pio · 06-05-2024 4:25pm

Imagine your new boss offered 10% more money (factoring commuting costs) but you have to work an extra 15 hours a week.

Would you take it then?

Ezeoul · 06-05-2024 4:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122103682#Comment_122103682

As someone who went back to work full time 5 months after my baby was born, and worked full time with a 60/90 minute average commute each way every day, if I had a chance at one do-over in my life, it would be that I wouldn't have done that. There is so much of my daughter's childhood I simply don't remember. (She is an adult now, and I'm Mammy btw).

Treasure your time with your little one as much as possible. Every possible second. Also consider how your partner would feel if you were gone for an extra 3 hours a day - and what pressures it may increase on them (e.g. if they had to do all the creche drops and pick ups, etc).

~~And I would also encourage you to learn how to drive. Even a motorbike could solve a lot of your problems. Motorbikes give you great road sense for when you do ever switch to a car.~~

(ETA) I see you mention driving is not an option for you, so ignore the last paragraph!

Best of luck to you.

robbiezero · 06-05-2024 4:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058350485/ok-ish-paid-job-with-almost-no-commute-time-or-a-better-paid-job-with-long-commute

Wouldn't do it for double my salary. A very easy No.

Seth Brundle · 06-05-2024 5:12pm

In my previous job, I had to travel from J7 to J12 on the M50 and daily, in total, spent well over two hours of what in hindsight was stressful driving.

My current job is a short distance away and it is probably quicker for me to cycle the 13km than drive it. Even driving is so much easier than my old commute.

Since giving up the M50 commute, I've often thought that if I were offered a new job at twice my current salary but having to do my old commute, would I take it? Not a chance!

herbalplants · 06-05-2024 5:23pm

Definitely no to the long commute even for better pay especially with a baba no way. But I would chance my arm and ask them to let you work from home!! Why not, it is IT!! Ask. If you don't ask you don't get.

KaneToad · 06-05-2024 5:29pm

Another chiming in to say don't go for the longer commute job!

Your time is valuable. If money really became an issue you could use those 15 hours weekly to earn a few quid in another fashion...eg English lessons? IT lessons for OAPs?

galwayguy85 · 06-05-2024 5:47pm

Thanks! Gave teaching English a crack a few years back. Zero hours contract nonsense - got out of there like a hot snot. IT for the OAPs (or anything involving the sick and the frail) would not be my gig. I'll go with overall consensus here that giving up what would likely be 12 hours a week (minimum) to be on-site (sadly the norm again) would be too big an ask.

Avatar in the Post · 06-05-2024 5:55pm

what if you said to your current employer… I’ve been offered another job… you can say you were head hunted and offered 20% more and were considering taking it.

You’re not handing in your notice. You may be pleasantly surprised. It won’t fix the boring job, but you could also offer to do more (some of his job!? - careful with that one though)

Gusser09 · 06-05-2024 6:02pm

Choose quality of life over a payrise every day if the week mate. You will never get the years you spend commutong back. Whereas money can always be earned again

06-05-2024 6:15pm

Assuming a 40 hour week, an extra 15 hours equates to a 37.5% increase in time given to the job. If working remotely 2 days a week that's 9 hours and a 22.5% increase. For a 20% pay raise. I can't see how that's worth it.

Separately, you will only get one opportunity to be a parent to your baby. That 9 or 15 hours commuting is lost forever. No pay raise will ever get that back for you.

An 11 hour day would mean not seeing your child awake for more than a few minutes during the week for a couple of years. At best- if you have the energy after a week of commuting- you'd be a weekend parent.

There's an Instagram video which says work-life balance is complete bullsiht, and if you're giving even nearly as much time to work as to your life you're doing it completely wrong. I fully subscribe to that- life is to be heavily favoured, give the bare minimum to work and go home- nobody in work is going to remember or care about you 3 weeks if you died tomorrow, so why would you commit so much to a job which will never be committed to you?

galwayguy85 · 06-05-2024 6:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122104139#Comment_122104139

Thanks for that empathic reply. Only really started to 'bond' with the child in the last few months - giving that up would be foolish. Herself says that the baby is happiest when both of us are around - I'll let the potential employer know the predicament I am in.

A pity really, we had a good rapport in the Teams meetings. It's nice to know however that I am worth more the pittance that my current employer is giving me at the end of the month. Home office is almost regarded as a 'human right' for nearly everybody in my company - it's just the IT staff who are the peasants who must come in to the office.

the_amazing_raisin · 06-05-2024 6:29pm

I'd sit in the current job for at least a year or two until your kid is older. Being around for your son's first few years is invaluable for bonding

Plus I'm sure your partner will appreciate you being able to help more and not being exhausted from commuting

You can always focus on your career later when your son is older

In the short term, I'd recommend trying to make the most of your current job. You can try to take on some extra work to stop yourself going mad with boredom and hopefully it leads to a pay rise as well

Alternatively you can use free time to do some learning

Or just catch up on sleep, you probably need it 😅

06-05-2024 6:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122104197#Comment_122104197

Parenting is much easier with 2 than with 1. You being around will reduce the pressure on your other half by a lot, and the little one will pick up on it. And no job pays enough to miss your baby's smiles...

I'd never compromise on family time for a promotion or more money. I've accepted that my career progression has ceased because of that- at the next level up I'd be expected to givethe long hours etc so I'll be sticking to my 9-5 until I retire. I'm outside Dublin though and bought my home 20 years ago so I'm fortunate in that I'm not desperate for every available euro.

If there's a better job for you 90 minutes away, there's one 20 or 30 minutes away as well. It's just a question of finding it.

irelandrover · 06-05-2024 6:45pm

That 1,5 hours commute is the minimum time as well. Considering you have two changes, waiting around time and the once in a while that a bus is delayed causing you to miss a connection is likely 2 hours each way. And that's coming from someone who did the exact same commute in the Netherlands where transport is better than Germany.

Its just not worth it. You tend to snack on your commute so your health gets worse, you'll feel like it's wasted time and you'll feel guilty about sitting on a train when you could have been at home with your partner and child.

For now take the easy option, a job you can easily do, a great commute and one that gives you plenty of time with your newborn and partner. Career progression will be there in a few years as well.

notAMember · 07-05-2024 5:45am

I think the posters are assuming an Irish style commute rather than German… as you posted on an Irish site it’s inevitable I guess, I’m also living in Germany and commute is a doddle for me. No need for a car generally. I don’t own one anyway, and have kids. I change twice on the way to work. Posting from it now. 😁

You also should have relatively strong social support in Germany as a working parent.

Just to put that lens on it…

If you can shorten up the hours, makes a big difference

CramCycle · 07-05-2024 6:49am

Ask the new job for 3 days at home, it's IT, unless it's physical IT support (which it doesn't sound like). Also talk to your current employer, say you like it there but have an offer. Can they offer a 10% bump and maybe pay for upskilling (a year or two in IT not progressing, area dependent, can set you back).

SteM · 07-05-2024 7:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122105596#Comment_122105596

Irish style commute, German style commute, doesn't matter when you're on public transport for an extra 3 hours per day and only getting to spend quality time with your child at the weekends imho.

galwayguy85 · 07-05-2024 7:51am

Cool guys. The missus and I decided that the increase in wages would be very soon negated by the travel time, stress getting there (and getting home) and time with the baby if a train/bus is delayed.

Kebabs tend to be the only source of nutrition in the bus/train stations of this land if one is stranded.

Sent the email to the HR department. A small enough family run business so I reckon they'll understand things.

07-05-2024 8:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122105791#Comment_122105791

Yes and no. The German public transport system is in my experience infinitely more reliable than the irish one. In 9 months in Berlin I encountered 1 disappearing u-bahn (the next one arrived 3 minutes later, and there was a profuse apology over the PA system) and 1 bus was 20 minutes late (there was 6 inches of snow on the ground at the time andi was well out the ring area).

So you can rely on public transport to get you from point a to point b at very predictable times even with taking 2 or 3 buses/trams/trains. So you can plan a multileg with confidence. Not something you can say about the irish system- you mostly can't even plan a single leg journey with confidence.

But I've never been on a train orbusin Germany that would be suitable for working during the commute. Not saying they don't exist, just that I've not been on them.

SteM · 07-05-2024 8:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122105857#Comment_122105857

I haven't been there in quite a while but I've taken plenty of public transport over the years in Germany, it was fine. That's not the point I was making. Doesn't matter how reliable it is, a 3 hours commute is still 3 hours commute.

Lewis_Benson · 07-05-2024 9:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058350485/ok-ish-paid-job-with-almost-no-commute-time-or-a-better-paid-job-with-long-commute

I'd say stay where you are for now.

Commuting it's not worth it.

galwayguy85 · 07-05-2024 11:10am

The boss man (of the new company)has agreed to having me come on-site one day a week or home office 100% on some weeks (programming tasks etc, not the bloody dull tedium of what I am doing right now). They must want me bad. Dozens of other application, according to LinkedIn - they were the ones who contacted me in the first instance. Changes things just a little. 😊

May take it yet. Assuming Microsoft Teams plays nice.

galwayguy85 · 07-05-2024 11:12am

applicants, rather.

notAMember · 07-05-2024 11:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122105791#Comment_122105791

You missed the piece where the commute is part of working time. It does for me, and many others. When I'm on the train I'm either on calls, or reviewing work etc. Also the people beside me. All of that is work time. Plenty of us have flexible start times, some appear at the desk at 10am, leave at 3pm. Core hours covered, on site 2 days a week. If there's a strike, stay home.

It's zero extra time at work in that case.

Of course not everyone has that situation, but it is certainly not unusual.

notAMember · 07-05-2024 11:25am

They sound supportive and flexible to be fair.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106510#Comment_122106510

allybhoy · 07-05-2024 1:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106510#Comment_122106510

Dont worry about the number of applicants on LinkedIn, 90% of these will be from unsuitable candidates without the relevant credentials or permits. I had a recent vacancy for an IT field service engineer in Cork, some of the prerequisite questions where "do you live in Munster and do you possess a full driving license" I had over 100 applicants that had neither.

New employer sound reasonable to be fair, if the new role is going to increase your knowledge and skillset along with CV enhancement and personal fulfilment then go for it. Make sure though that those new WFH allowances are stipulated in your contract before signing, if not, then walk away. Secondly, im not sure of the culture in Germany, but dont disclose your new salary with any colleagues and also be prepared in case your current employer makes a counter offer. Think about the reasons why you are leaving your current role, menial tasks, stagnating etc.

Ezeoul · 07-05-2024 2:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122106510#Comment_122106510

If you do decide to take it, make sure those WFH terms are written in stone within your contract.

Or you may find that six months in, you'll be asked to come in "extra days".

I'd always be a little cautious of an employer who appears to be a little desperate. They'll say or promise anything to get you in the door.

Ella108 · 01-06-2024 7:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122104139#Comment_122104139

Hi, I'm curious now to see this Instagram channel ( I'm not on Instagram and not sure if you're allowed to share a link here)

I am on the other side of what everyone has said here due to my own unique personal experience which might no be the case for most people

I started working for a limited company few months mainly due to the fact it was just a few minutes walking distance from my home ( among other factors such as decent pay, some flexibility over the hours, and aligned with my work experience and education background etc). Therefore, I had declined several job offers (more or less same salary) arising around the same time, due to fact that my commute time would significantly impact my energy, time, work life balance an so on. ( I don't drive either, yet)

I regretted....a lot.…and as soon as I joined and it has come to a point where I have now resigned and am willing to travel any number of reasonable hours, for better working conditions. Again, these are my own unique circumstances, working for a boss with unrealistic expectations, not paying on time, and so on.....

I am grateful there's something called probation period where you get to decide whether it's working for you or not. Ofcourse these are not easy decisions and you have to consider carefully considering your own circumstances

Sono · 01-06-2024 8:05am

as a father of 2 young kids myself I would say stay in the job you’re in, money comes and goes, it’s not the most important thing, kids grow up in the blink of an eye. You can always get a better paid job when they are older and less dependent on you, the younger days of a child’s life are amazing to be there for.

Best of luck with your decision.

galwayguy85 · 07-06-2024 8:50am

A big thanks to everyone who contributed in the past weeks.

I was stuck in the difficult position that if I asked for ANOTHER re-write of the contract (effectively the 3rd one, including the original) I would have missed the boat in terms of giving in my two months notice with my current employer, which would have been the end of May (to start August 1st with the new crowd). That's how things work in Germany. I have long forgotten the rules in Ireland.

I have decided to take the new job. The one I have has me bored ridged and does not really allow me the chance to apply what I studied in college (yes, I know that college qualifications alone don't guarantee one a bed of
roses in terms of salary/career progression).

I have ample savings to fall back on if things don't pan out. You'll always miss 100% of the shots you never take.

Mod, this thread can be closed. Thanks again guys.

OK'(ish) paid job with almost no commute time OR a better-paid job with long commute

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