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Beginner looking at starting with shotgun

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  • 28-04-2024 8:17pm
    #1
    Aodhan5000
    Registered Users Posts: 602 ✭✭✭


    Hi all,

    Complete novice with no experience myself looking at getting into some shooting. Had it in my head to get a shotgun for shooting crows around lambing season (so a bit late for this year unfortunately) and would possibly be interested in taking up clay pigeons.

    I'd imagine I'd first need to do a safety course to have that box ticked and then get further training at a club? I'm located around the Kerry/Limerick border area if that's any help. Knocknagoshal would be handy enough for me to get to.

    I've little to no idea where to start with what shotgun/cartridges to buy and where at a reasonable price. From what I gathered, 12 gauge and ballpark 32gr is the way to go but I'm open to correction and have no idea what's best between pump, SA, over under etc and gas or inertia. I'd like to keep it on the cheaper end of things, anything above €1000 is definitely off the table and ideally something ballpark €500.

    And just broadly any beginner advice would be much appreciated. I've tried to do a good skelp of reading but I won't take any offence to being treated like I know nothing. Cheers



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    #2
    TheEngineer1
    Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭TheEngineer1


    You more or less have it figured out already it seems - get a safety course done first. A lot of gun shops run them or you can sign up to do one on the NARGC website.

    Then find a gun. Go into a gun shop and play around with what they have. Get the names of a few different brands and models but don't part with any money till you've had a chance to do some research. €500 will get you a second hand Baikal (Russian make, highly reliable but definitely on the budget end of things) but once you start getting to the €700/ €800 mark you'll be looking at a decent second hand model from a European manufacturer.

    In automatics look at the likes of Franchi and Benelli. For double barrels in that price range you won't go wrong with a Silma. If you can really stretch the budget take a look at second hand Brownings and Berettas. None is any better or worse than the other. Choose what fits you - what you can mount to your eye most naturally without having to crane your neck too much to look down the rib. My only advice would be that a second hand quality gun is better than a new cheap model. That being said, you can get a brand new Turkish shotgun for less than €1000. They used have a bad reputation for breaking easily but in recent years they seem to be getting their quality control in order.

    Automatics have the benefit of 3 shots which is useful for flocks of crows or pigeons. Double barrels have the benefit of not throwing empty casings everywhere when you pull the trigger and you can put two different cartridges in each barrel (such as a heavy fox cartridge and a lighter cartridge for a crow) and switch between them on demand. Honestly, none has any real advantage over the other. What is comfortable is more important.

    My only advice would be get something that is marked to shoot steel ammunition (most modern guns are but anything more than 10/15 years old might not be). The NPWS have made steel shot compulsory for shooting near water so make sure the gun is "steel proof". Steel is harder than lead so generates higher pressure in the barrels than usual lead shot so the gun must be manufactured accordingly. Any gun that is steel proof can shoot lead ammunition too as normal.

    Once you've picked out your gun ,pay for it and the dealer will give you a receipt and serial number. Download the FCA1 form from the Garda website and and fill in the details. It sounds like you'll be using it for vermin shooting on your own land so tick the vermin shooting box on your application as the reason why you want the gun.

    You'll need to give info on security arrangements too. I'd recommend getting a gun safe but for a single shotgun a trigger lock is sufficient.



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    #3
    lmk123
    Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭lmk123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058349321/beginner-looking-at-starting-with-shotgun

    they have loads of guns in Knocknagoshel, Paudie white in Broadford has plenty too. He had a practically new Huglu for €450 a while back he might still have it, they’ll both do the safety course for free I’d say if you’re buying a gun from them. If you’re in limerick it’ll probably be Abbeyfeale you’ll be getting the license from, takes about 3 months there. As for cartridges, just buy a few different boxes and you’ll figure out quickly which ones suit best.



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    #4
    Rosahane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,415 ✭✭✭Rosahane


    Firstly you need to decide what is the primary purpose of the shotgun. If you want to primarily do clays a single barrel S/A or pump is probably out as many clubs don't allow them and anyway you are at a slight disadvantage without a choice of chokes in two barrels.

    If you only, or mainly want it for vermin control a S/A only offers a slight advantage with the possibility of an extra shot while its main advantage is ease of reloading in a hide.

    A double barrel U/O is probably the best multipurpose and lots of good secondhand multi choke guns available in your price range.

    Be aware that there are laws around, and differences in the legality of shooting vermin such as grey crows and magpies compared to rooks and pigeons. Your safety/competency course should explain this and the use of different cartridge shot size and load for different putposes.



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    #5
    Aodhan5000
    Registered Users Posts: 602 ✭✭✭Aodhan5000


    So went to knocknagoshal today to shoot a box of shells. Wouldn't call it a life-changing experience but was definitely a bit of craic and could see myself potentially going out there the odd weekend with a mate to shoot a few clays so I suppose that narrows me down to some class of a double barrel.

    After shooting I was looking and asking about their guns. They didn't seem to have a deadly amount of double barrels in the sub €1000 range and were pushing me in the direction of a 28" Huglu for €785 which I wasn't especially fond of. I had it in my head I'd be looking for a 30" gun and wouldn't know much about the Huglu brand so I'm not 100% sure where go from here. Is it worth shopping around a bit first maybe or holding tough to see if they get any new stock? Any advice appreciated, thanks



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    #6
    Shellfishfcuker
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭Shellfishfcuker


    Sounds like an U/O will fit all your requirements. Make sure to buy a single trigger gun. Up to yourself whether an ejector would suit your circumstances.



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    #7
    lmk123
    Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭lmk123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122114237#Comment_122114237

    I’ve a Huglu nearly 3 years, between clays and hunting / shooting around the farm I’ve a lot done with it, no bother at all with it, very happy with it, non ejector which I’d prefer anyway, you’ll get one cheaper than you’ve said above though, see my previous post



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    #8
    TheEngineer1
    Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭TheEngineer1


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122114237#Comment_122114237

    If you're not fond of it, don't buy it. No point in buying something you're not happy with.

    I'm sure the Huglu is a perfectly serviceable gun but get something that fits you properly and more importantly that you enjoy using!



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    #9
    Aodhan5000
    Registered Users Posts: 602 ✭✭✭Aodhan5000


    Anybody have any info on Paudie White in Broadford? Opening times or number? I don't even know where the gaff is but wanted to give a glance to see if he'd anything that might suit myself? Working during the week unfortunately so I'd only be able to swing by at weekends or late evenings in the week



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    #10
    lmk123
    Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭lmk123


    ya he opens around 7:30-9:15 most evenings, I can send you the number if u want



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    #11
    Aodhan5000
    Registered Users Posts: 602 ✭✭✭Aodhan5000


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150835#Comment_122150835

    Cheers. That'd be lovely if you could, and just ballpark where in Broadford he is. Thanks again



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    #12
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    One piece of advice I'll throw in, I don't think it's been covered yet.

    Make sure you try each gun your interested in for fit.

    Too many lads will pick a gun that looks nice, has the brand name, or because they were told this is the one to get. It's rubbish. Pick what suits you.

    When you shoulder a shotgun it should be comfortable, fit snuggly in your arms and shoulder and most importantly you should have almost perfect target picture along the shotgun rib without much if anything adjustment.

    Now some of this will depend on your mounting of the gun. If your technique is utterly wrong then you will need to learn to adjust it slightly but it shouldn't be so different from your natural body position as to be a chore each time you bring it to your shoulder.

    If the gun doesn't fit it'll feel wrong, and you'll find you'll be missing more than can be attributed to beginner error.

    A trick.

    Pick up a gun you like. Make sure it is empty/clear and keep your finger off the trigger at all times. Either have a mirror or someone at the end that can help. Close your eyes and shoulder the gun. Now open your eyes.

    You should be almost perfectly along the rib of the shotgun. If you're not, by a miniscule amount then this gun fits you well enough. If you find you're along the right or left of the rib, by a lot, then see what it takes to be along it and if it's excessive then the gun doesn't fit.

    Whenever I shoulder anything other than Beretta or Bettinsoli I find I'm always along the inside/left of the rib and with the likes of Browning I'm almost level with the top of the barrel and under the rib.

    If I were to shoot with a gun that fits me like this I'll be high and possibly ahead of the target each time.

    The last thing is testing. When I shoot Beretta I must be along the rib and only see the sight at the end of the barrel. If I do this I'll hit each time or at least be on target.

    When I use my Bettinsoli I must be along the rib but must see a small amount of the rib (almost looking up along it) and almost block the target with the barrels to be spot on otherwise I'm under the target.

    These are little eccentricities of my natural body position coupled with the way each different manufacturer profiles their guns.

    It's why I always recommend shouldering every gun you're looking at and trying have someone with more experience help you out. The guy in the shop will help but they have a goal to sell a gun whereas a friend or unbiased person will tell you what you need to know over what they want to sell you.

    Hope this is somewhat helpful.

    Post edited by Cass on
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    #13
    Aodhan5000
    Registered Users Posts: 602 ✭✭✭Aodhan5000


    Went back to broadford there yesterday. Shouldered a share of guns and found Beretta and browning fitting me best. A few other names I didn't recognise (maybe Turkish?) fitted alright but just didn't feel as comfy and natural as the two above. Some others then that just felt wrong. Too long and too short depending.

    Beretta was a 686 I think, tiny bit of rust (we're talking 5mmx5mm max) on the barrel and the inside of the barrel was fairly dirty so not sure how well kept it was. I wasn't that concerned though. Fell open very easily so well used I'd say. He was looking for 900 for it. I don't mind the price of it but just don't genuinely don't know if it's a good buy from the perspective of how worn it is.

    Browning 525 was in better nick, nice and clean, little bit tighter to open only so a few less put through? 1200 for her so similar enough to one they have back in Knocknagoshal. Both me and my mate I brought (he's a shooter) preferred the browning for what it is but thought 1200 was stepping it up a lot price wise.

    Not officially steel shot proofed but he said it'd be grand as long as the loads weren't too heavy and she wasn't that choked.

    I think it might be worth going to a few more places just to feel a few more guns and see a few more options but not sure what else it near me? I know Patrick O'Mahony was back in Tralee but he got shot and I don't know if the son carried it on? There seems to be a gaff in Killarney as well I might give a bell and just ask if they've anything. Anywhere else Kerry/Limerick/North Cork even?



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    #14
    lmk123
    Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭lmk123


    sullivans in Rathkeale, same yard / shed / people as the steel works, open 9-5 I’d say



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    #15
    TheEngineer1
    Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭TheEngineer1


    If you liked the 525 but the price was too steep you could always go the import route from the UK. You might find the exact same model for 1/2 or 2/3 the price compared to Ireland.

    If you take a look on guntrader UK and find what you're looking for, you can pay for it and get it shipped to an RFD in Northern Ireland that does import/export (they might charge €50 for this). You then apply for your firearm cert as normal with the guards and also apply to the dept of justice for an import license (this is free). Once you have both, the dealer up north gets an export license and will post the gun to you.

    Shouldn't take any longer than normal as the import export licenses are very quick so by the time the Gardai issue your firearm cert all the other paperwork should be good to go.

    Also I'd be very cautious of the dealer saying "be grand" when it comes to steel shot!



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    #16
    J.R.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,351 ✭✭✭J.R.


    If you intend to keep the gun for a while I would only buy one suitable for superior steel shot…to cover all aspects of shooting,

    Lots of guns being traded-in that are not suitable for that shot….may be worthless in time.

    https://www.gmk.co.uk/gmk-advice-on-steel-shot/news/85



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    #17
    3ric_is_3ric
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭3ric_is_3ric


    ”it’d be grand for steel shot” sounds like something they’d put on a tombstone



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    #18
    Aodhan5000
    Registered Users Posts: 602 ✭✭✭Aodhan5000


    I probably have ye driven mad at this stage so apologies in advance for making this such a long thread! Looking back, the budget has ballooned quite a bit since I started!

    Took a spin back to Mike Duggan in Kilarney there couple days back. He had a Browning 425 (s/h but very good-excellent), Betinsoli Diamond Deluxe (new) and a Beretta 687 (mint), all sporters with 30" barrels, cased with chokes. Didn't like the feel of the Beretta in my shoulder, might've been the size of the pad on the butt as it was quite large but was also out of budget (1800) so just wrote it off immediately. The Bettinsoli felt decent in the hand and looked gorgeous, but coming in at 1580, so quite steep for my liking. I'm not sure if the Browning felt "better" in terms of fit, but it felt more solid in my arms if that makes any sense. Bit more robust and meaty feeling, in a good way. Cheapest of the lot at 1390.

    I'm going to Knock there tomorrow in the evening to put a few rounds through a browning 525 sporter (€1250) that I shouldered the last day so that should hopefully finally allow me to finally pick my preference. I think however, I'm leaning towards the 425 out of all of them but is it a touch expensive (haggle away?, any price I should aim for/tactics?) and is it better to go for a more recent release like the 525 for any reason like spare parts, etc or will the 425 be just as good?

    Would it be much of an issue that the 425 is limited to a 3" chamber? I see you can get 50gr 0s with a 3" and more like 42gr 0s with a 2 3/4". Not too worried about shooting that heavy anytime soon but obviously the versatile the gun would be, the better in the long run.


    Slightly off topic and more vain/picky, is it possible to replate the gold triggers on most shotguns guns? I did notice the triggers on the Bettinsoli and Beretta were absolutely gleaming while the Browning's trigger looked a little more tired and I'm curious as to whether one could revive that gleam with a replate? Not a dealbreaker but would be a nice to have.

    Thanks again everyone!

    Post edited by Aodhan5000 on


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    #19
    Croohur1
    Registered Users Posts: 126 ✭✭Croohur1


    Personally, having owned both the Browning and the Bettinsoli, IF the Browning fits better - get the Browning. The Bettinsoli is nice, its fine, but the Browning is built to last. Loads of spares if anything breaks. And just better built without a doubt. The Bettinsoli shoots absolutely fine, but doesnt have the satisfying clunk to close like a Browning does. I also found the ejectors on the Bettinsoli a bit bleh. Berettas are also excellent, but there is a reason why people tend to be Browning or Beretta people, they shoulder differently and most people tend to have a preference they stick with.

    And yes, its easy enough to replate gold triggers.

    See how you find the 525, it is very very similar to the 425. I wouldnt be worrying too much about 3"+ chamber length, tbh magnum loads are pretty specialised and not something the vast majority of shooters would be thinking about.

    And at the end of the day, if you take to shooting, this wont be your last shotgun. A 425 or 525 is a great place to start.



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    #20
    Ali Malik
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭Ali Malik


    Hi

    1. Well, in the post you said you have a set budget in mind do a little search on the Internet and see what's for sale at your nearest dealer maybe sort the items from prices low to high and see what everyone has for the price range shortlist a couple of dealers and call them before you go upto them to ask about the condition of the gun's action, barrels and stock etc and a lot of time they will tell you upfront if there's anything wrong with it. This will aave you time and effort, often they send more pics on request as well.

    2. I can whole heartedly suggest buying a bettinsoli second hand with a nice tight action and I don't see why it wouldn't last you a good few years if you keep it nice and clean.
    Try Peter Kelly in Lahardane for second hand and brand new or bawnboy firearms they have Webley and scott 1000 sporter ( this particular model unlike other webley's which are made in Turkey now this model is actually made in Italy by bettinsoli) and it's just 1050 brand new I guess this is a fair price, in my opinion anything decent in o/u category will come in at a price tag of 650 or above second hand.



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