BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

OV Chipkaart works exactly the same way as the existing Leap card (though with the different per km fare method), you use a dedicated card to tag on and off, so we already have that with Leap cards.

Do you mean OVPay?

OVPay allows you to tag on and off with any contactless debit/credit card, mobile phone, etc. and was introduced last year.

If the above, then yes, the announcements about them winning the contract specifically mentions account based ticketing and being able to pay using contactless cards, mobiles, etc.

Yep, it will likely be the same for us. We will still have Leap cards for those who want them, it will be needed for the child/young person fare, free tavel pass, various period ticket, etc. [1]

But they will then add extra options to pay by bank card, mobile phone, etc. for those who prefer that.

Same in London, you still have the old Oyster cards and now the new tap to pay options.

[1] There is an interesting possibility that you could load these sort of tickets on a phone/debit card, by linking them to your online Leap account or even a virtual Leap card on your phone. Some countries do this, but I'm not certain if we are planning to do the same.

It will be kind of odd that people under 26 won't be able to use their phone to pay and would need to use a Physical leap card to get the reduced fare. You'd normally expect young people to embrace new tech like this. I hope this is something they are thinking about.

The possibility of a virtual leap card on your phone might work best for it. Select that card to pay for your fare, show the driver the virtual card on your phone if they request it (to confirm it is valid).

This seems to be an on going problem for both OVPay and Oyster tap to pay, with OVPay, only one particular subscription can be put on your debit card, the others like child/student discounts, over 65 dicscounts, etc. still don't work with OVPay.

I'm very interested to see how both OVPay and Leap deal with this in time.

It is brilliant for most people, which is folks over 25 and under 65 (excluding disabled, etc.). So most daily commuters.

No longer being stuck if you forget or lose your Leap card. No longer possibly losing the money on the card if it isn't registered. And not having to deal with the **** auto-topup system.

I do get your view, I'm the type of person that I still have the same Leap card since the Leap card trial when it was first launched. But my better half on the other hand, loses her card at least once every 6 months and it is a major hassle of having to get a new card, losing the money on it, etc.

She would NEVER lose her phone or forget to bring it!

The other big aspect of this, is that once this is introduced, is when we start removing cash fares and driver interaction, this should result in reducing boarding times and journey times, which is the real goal of all of this.

Of course making it easier for tourists and irregular visitors is important too, after all we want public transport to be easy to use and accessible, but again it also helps get rid of cash fares from these type of users and speeds up journey times.

I will say that virtual travel cards on the phone is used all over Asia and seems to work well, so I'd see no reason why we wouldn't go that way eventually. It is just the case that the basic tap to pay is a good starting point and it gets rid of cash fares.

BTW I also wouldn't really say that Leap cards work well.

The auto-topup system is a massive pain in the ass to set up and it takes too much money out of you account (€40 a go), not everyone has a phone with NFC who can do top-ups, less shops now sell or topup Leap cards. And don't get me started on the rubbish ticket machines on buses.

Leap cards can be okay, if you are a regular PT user and you put the effort in, finally set up atuo-topup or have a phone with NFC. But it can be troublesome for a lot of people and more trouble then it's worth.

As an side, fun fact about Amsterdam, children under 12 travel free with an adult, but they still need to get a paper ticket from the bus driver to travel free! Even good systems can have weird quircks.

No, unfortunately she is the type of person who can't be bothered with that. We often end up having two or three cards for her floating around. And I hate it when she grabs my card because she is late, running out the door and can't find her card!

BBTW I should point out, that how Oyster tap to pay works (and I guess OVPay) is called an open loop system.

That is actually different to what they are proposing to do with the next gen ticketing project, they are instead doing something called Account Based Ticketing (ABT).

ABT is like what New York has rolled out with their Omny card (cool name) and yes it easily supports reduced fare tickets on your smart device, etc. Interesting video about it here:

https://new.mta.info/fares/reduced-fare/omny

Continuing interesting fun facts adn quirks, kids under 44 inches travel free in New York! Imagine bus drivers trying to figure out your size here, LOL!