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Neighbours tree blocking sunlight - possible options

  • 10-05-2024 6:51pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭


    Neighbours tree blocks all the sunlight to my garden from about 6pm onwards but he's unwilling to cut it back and stated that he's happy to continue to see it grow higher / wider - currently it's the height of the house and about third is over the boundary wall into my garden. While I'm aware I can legally cut the tree back to my boundary I'd ideally like the tree height reduced. I'd also like to get solar panels in the future but there will be no point given the shade cast on my roof.

    I read the following from the Tree Council's website - has anyone sought a work order mentioned and how did it work out?

    My neighbour’s tree/hedge is far too high.
    What can I do?

    There are no height limits for either hedges or trees and there is no legislation currently available in the Republic of Ireland to enforce a height restriction.
    There is the option to seek a works order under Section 45, Land Conveyancing, Law Reform Act 2009, to reduce the height of the trees.



«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,974 ✭✭✭long_b


    Have you suggested that you pay to get the tree trimmed at all ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,915 ✭✭✭Alkers


    As far as I'm aware anything that overhangs your boundary you can cut back yourself or have I misinterpreted your question?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    If you cut your side back to the wall, depending on the type of tree you will be stuck with the unsightly dead inside if the tree.

    Unfortunately you cant compel the neighbor to cut his side down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kaymin


    Tbh I didn't have the chance to bring that up - he shut the door on the possibility of reducing the height and then shut the door on me. I would be prepared to pay a professional to do it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kaymin


    I'm aware I can do that but it won't reduce the height of the tree which is the real issue for me. I'm wondering if I can seek a work order from the courts under Section 45, Land Conveyancing, Law Reform Act 2009, to reduce the height of the trees. I understand there is no right to light except in very limited circumstances so possibly I'm wasting my time seeking such a work order.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,766 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    I don't see how Section 45, Land Conveyancing, Law Reform Act 2009, would apply here. It only provides for a building owner who is indispute with an adjoining owner with respect to exercise of rights under section 44, which in turn refers to works to a party structure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kaymin


    Works is defined in section 43:

    “ works ” include—

    (a) carrying out works of adjustment, alteration, cutting into or away, decoration, demolition, improvement, lowering, maintenance, raising, renewal, repair, replacement, strengthening or taking down,

    (b) cutting, treating or replacing any hedge, tree or shrub,

    (c) clearing or filling in ditches,

    (d) ascertaining the course of cables, drains, pipes, sewers, wires or other conduits and clearing, renewing, repairing or replacing them,

    (e) carrying out inspections, drawing up plans and performing other tasks requisite for, incidental to or consequential on any works falling within paragraphs (a) to (d);



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,766 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    ... my reading of it would be that you can make an application under section 45 for remedy of something caused by works to adjoining property, but if your neighbour is doing nothing then there is no effect to any works for which a remedy can be sought under section 45.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 805 ✭✭✭Mr Disco




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kaymin


    Tempting but I'd rather not have to resort to that!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,920 ✭✭✭blackbox


    Yo may be tempted to do this, but be aware that it could be considered to be a criminal act and could result in a very undesirable outcome.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kaymin


    Well, they're growing a tree so they're doing something and the relevant remedy under section 43 falls under 'cutting, treating or replacing any hedge, tree or shrub'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 550 ✭✭✭chrisd2019




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,766 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    They're doing nothing. Section 45 could apply if, for instance, they drove a tractor with a flail or circular saw on a boom across your lawn to cut back the tree and ruined your lawn in the process. You could apply under section 45 for them to reinstate your lawn.

    But here they are not 'cutting, treating or replacing any hedge, tree or shrub'. They are not carrying out any works, therefore there are no effects of any works for which you can make an application under section 45.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 730 ✭✭✭SVI40


    Possibly keep cutting it back, and it will overly grow on their side, and topple over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kaymin


    The works is the remedy not the act that needs to be remedied. So if cutting, treating or replacing any hedge, tree or shrub is the remedy then the act that required remediation is, for example, the growing of a tree.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,851 ✭✭✭satguy


    The Irish courts have in the past applied the so- called “45 degree rule” as a guide in determining whether there is a case to answer on a claim for interference with a right to light. This rule of thumb suggests that there is no substantial interference if the angle of unobstructed light is greater than 45 degrees.

    You could try this in court, it may make him think about costs if you win,, but if you fail, then you would need to think about costs.

    You could hang a swing on your side if it overhangs enough,, This might irk him into action.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 DocMcC


    2 options I can think of:

    1. there is a thing called "ancient lights" but is difficult to prove
    2. Diesel :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kaymin


    Thanks, that's very helpful. I'd be fairly sure there is substantial interference on that measure



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    criminal damage, you just got a criminal record 🤦‍♂️



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kaymin


    I think ancient rights or the right to light applies if your building has benefitted from the light for 12 years which rules that out for me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25 DocMcC


    Yes, that is it, generally if you can prove you used to be able to read a book during the day in "the room" and no longer can that you are affected but as you said there is a time period and you are talking about a garden not a "room".

    as for Diesel, you only have to spill it on your side of the fence (bit drastic I know….)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,586 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 805 ✭✭✭Mr Disco




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    How tall is the tree and how long is it there and what type,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kaymin


    It's over the height of the house roof. It's there ~20 years but has been growing from a small tree over that time. Not sure of the type - it sheds its leaves in Autumn.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,595 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    blocks all the sunlight to my garden from about 6pm onwards

    From 6pm onward? I wouldn't mind if you were missing the midday sun but you're getting that and you still want to cause an argument over what's left after 6? Nah.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kaymin


    A third of the tree is over my boundary - I'd need a cherry picker to cut it from my side. I work full time Monday to Friday finishing work around 6pm. Also the tree blocks a good portion of light to my garden for half of the rest of the day. Neighbours trees also effectively rule out solar panels.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,038 ✭✭✭Cork Lass


    Are the roots causing you any problems. We had a problem with a neighbours tree a few rears ago, it was planted very close to our stone wall and caused it to bow. Neighbour called an engineer to prove his tree was not the problem but engineer stated it was the problem and in fairness he had the tree cut down immediately. We had young kids at the time and the engineer classed the wall as dangerous. We then had to have the wall repaired at our own expense but we were happy enough with that outcome.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,245 ✭✭✭amacca


    Wouldnt they have to prove it! Might be hard to do that depending on the method and the timing!

    Tbh I think continually cutting it back on their side and letting it become unbalanced on theirs and hopefully topple into them is the best option

    You are within your rights to trim if its encroaching on your property so Id be sure where the boundary line is and be jealous about trimming it my side all the way up...

    Polesaw and a decent stable ladder might help a lot

    Bit of a dick move on the neighbours paet not to be willing to do something to trim it back a bit...neighbour came to me about a laurel hedge growing way too high....I felt like it was only right to trim it down regardless of the law....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kaymin


    Thanks - yeah I was taken aback my his attitude. He compared my request to possibly trim the top to him asking his neighbour to knock down his house because it caused a shade. Left little point in engaging any further….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kaymin


    I

    I'm not aware of any problems but I have builders / engineer in soon so I might ask their opinion. The neighbour said he would be letting nature take its course and wouldn't be pruning the tree - it's already over the height of the house and the tree trunk is about a metre from the boundary wall - presumably the taller it grows the greater the pressure on the boundary wall from the roots.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    always two sides to a story

    Nobody I have found online will give the full story, like this story they are fully reasonable and it’s the awful terrible other person. Rarely in life do you have these situations unless some previous etc


    Now of course I could be wrong but just basing it on previous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,586 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    You would be wasting your time trying to speak logically to someone that used such an illogical/silly comparison.

    I would be cutting back the overhanging/encroaching branches, and handing them to the beloved owner of the tree they were once attached to.

    Post edited by Kaisr Sose on


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,667 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    If the tree is the height of the house, I don't see how it could impact solar panels that much? For it to shade the roof expect at sunrise or sunset, it'd need to be nearly at the house?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kaymin


    The sun isn't so high except in summer so trees 15 metres away do shade my roof. Another tree is almost at my roof so a shade is cast even with the summer sun. If one solar panel is shaded, the entire array won't function - at least that's my understanding. Not all of these trees are in the same neighbouring garden. The builders planted these trees 20 years ago and its only in the last few years they've grown to an excessive height.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,245 ✭✭✭amacca


    Ah yeah in fairness thats always baked in ...but in the absence of any other info Im willing to take it a face value

    Ive met the like of that lad occasionally in my travels...pure pig ignorant, wouldnt dream of doing anything neighbourly etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,434 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    While normally I would agree with you, I had personal experience in one house with a neighbour who, the first time he met me, said that I should cut down all the trees on 'his' side of my garden as they shaded his house, he then went on to do a couple of things that were not exactly neighbourly. I did remove some trees, he was not entirely wrong about that, but not all of them, and mostly because they needed to be removed for other reasons, and his wife is a nice woman, not because of his rude demands.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    Two of hours neighbors had a dispute about trees. They fell out with each other, but my Mum was friends with both and id hear them both complaining to my mother about the other if they were in the house. Dont know how my mother didnt just boot them out of the house when they brought it up.

    They were those lelandi trees. Started off 1 ft though and within a few years were about 30 foot high. They shaded the whole garden. The poor woman would be in tears. Then the other loved her trees. So the husband started butting their side because thats all they were allowed to cut and they had this brown mess on their side of the garden but it still didnt help with the shade.

    The two women were friends for about 20 years before the trees and they didnt hated each other at this point. And the woman tried all legal means to get rid of the trees. One day the husband of the tree owner met the woman form the other garden (he always tried to remain friendly but she never spoke to him either even though he would always say hello) and she was in tears and he called her son to come out to her. The next day he got a digger and pulled all the trees out. His wife went mad at him, but she got over it. Its 10 years on and the two women are now talking again.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I had similar issues with a neighbour, but no bad blood or falling out. He had a row of laylandii along the boundary on his side which grew to a huge height. I had them trimmed on my side, he declined to have the heights reduced even though I was going to pay. Sure enough, the next big storm, one of the trees toppled over into his garden. Soon after he had to pay to have them topped, that was an unintended and costly consequence for him.

    Op, whenever disputes start between neighbours, they can have unintended consequences, and are I suspect, irretrievable. Ignore the keyboard clowns telling you to poison the tree, they wouldn’t do it themselves, if you vandalise his property, you will have no one to blame but yourself for any consequences that ensue as a result of your actions. Cut back the branches on your side as you are allowed to do, when the guys did it for me, they told the neighbour that there was a risk of toppling due the weight on his side, let the people who cut yours do the same thing.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭yagan


    I would have thought you are allowed apply poison on a part of tree that's in your property. Obviously poisoning the part of the tree in their property is firstly trespassing, but ultimately if it's on your property you can do as you please.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It’s an interesting point, but if I set a fire on my side of a boundary and it damages your property, could I say that I only meant to burn my side?

    Edit: my damn copy and paste won’t work here recently but if you google “can I poison my neighbours tree”, the “trees and the law” section on the treecouncil.ie site states that the person using the poisonous substance may be liable/be prosecuted under the Criminal Damage Act 1991.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,667 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    if the trees are the same height as the house, and are 15m away, they shouldn't shade it except very late in the day or in deep winter (when the tree would have no leaves anyway, and solar wouldn't be performing well anyway); for the tree to even partially shade a roof of 2m high the sun would have to drop below 7 degrees.

    but you mention one being right at the house - is the neighbour's garden backing on to yours, or alongside?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,994 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    That would be illegal as it would damage the whole tree.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,151 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    you are entitled to cut but you must remove the cuttings

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,667 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    isn't the law that you're allowed cut but must offer the cuttings to the neighbour first?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,151 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,063 ✭✭✭yagan


    Wouldn't the neighbour by the same logic be legally bound to pay for the removal of any of their trespassing plants from property that's not theirs? A tree invading a neighbours property does not enjoy rights.

    How a person gets rid of trespassing growth is entirely their own business, as long as it doesn't involve any banned substances.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,667 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    How a person gets rid of trespassing growth is entirely their own business, as long as it doesn't involve any banned substances.

    not correct.

    All cuttings must be given back to the owner of the tree or at least offered back. If the owner of the tree does not want the cuttings, they must be disposed of in a responsible way and should not be left on the tree owner’s property without permission.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,994 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    The key word is offer. You can't just throw them over their side.



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