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Increase in Anti-EV Media Articles

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭ColemanY2K


    Night rate is 18 cents. I would need to fully charge the battery (Tesla M3 RWD for example) three times a week to cover my commute + a quick splash and dash at a Tesla SUC on those three days.

    When I worked out the figures pinergy and energia came behind my flogas tariff in terms of who was the cheapest.

    Now the calculation might completely flip on it's head were I to invest in a battery for my solar setup. Something I may factor in for the craic.

    🌞 7.79kWp PV System. Comprised of 4.92kWp Tilting Ground Mount + 2.87kWp @ 27°, azimuth 180°, West Waterford 🌞



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    3 full charges per week on the night rate being E30 not E50 though right? That's starting to look more respectable already.

    Flogas night rate is 12c now if you wanted to push them a bit btw.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    You'd get twice the mileage in a diesel cutting that saving in half. So if the depreciation was 10-15k it could take a long time to make that back.

    Costs me about 80-100 a fill on my petrol. That range costs me approx 30 on my EV but I'm on a meh 24hr rate. But I only fill once or twice a month. So it would take me even longer to offset that depreciation. Though I don't buy a new EV and I could get that down by getting a better night right. Servicing and repairs were becoming to be significant in my ICE cars though.

    That said we so much prefer to do my driving in the EV, mostly short city driving we'd happily pay a premium to do it in an EV.

    That said if I was buying new today and doing a lot of motorway driving I could make the argument for a diesel or petrol. But it would for almost none of the reasons in these media articles.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I'll probably change mine to a better rate soon. The rates and smart meter rates have all changed in the last 6-12 months. We are using our EV much more than I thought we would. It was meant to be our 2nd car but its now doing about 85% of our mileage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 748 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    I honestly wouldn't know an EV if one was in front.

    I don't think I would consider buying one though, the generator comes out all too often here and my Lidl 1.7kW might have problems charging a car and running the house basics.

    The only thing I would wonder is that maybe you are doing something really "stupid" and anti social in this country and sticking to the speed limit?

    I invariably do now, my days of either all brakes or accelerator are long gone. The overtaking that ensues with people cutting in sharply in front of me is usually when the oncoming traffic gives them a bit of a clue why unbroken lines and speed limits are used.

    If it is your choice of vehicle I wonder why everything these days seems to attract people of polar opposite attitudes who's adherence to an opinion seems almost tribal or cultist though?

    Personally I think it's great that people get away from fossil fuels, it must help the country by saving on imports from countries with a history of poor treatment of their citizens by western supported dictators too.

    After seeing what seems like a few seemingly candid reports by many, including some guy on youtube calling EV's "milk floats" as well as some electrician who diverted subject onto his electrically powered van when given one, they seem to be suitable for a very niche market. I used to hate stopping on motorways to fill up when travelling for work, or using the satnav to find a fuel station in some rural bit of Britain and finding it had shut down years back, those niggles would I'm sure be multiplied considerably with an EV.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Do you still travel for work and drive around rural Britain? If you are then maybe you need a diesel. Unless you want to make an EV work.



  • Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭Ozark707


    I know a few people who are looking to buy an EV (they WFH most of the week so low mileage) but unless they come down in price they won't. They would likely buy a 2nd hand one so if they take another step down in prices then I think you will see a lot more join the band.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,158 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    when you say come down in price relative to what? A tesla model 3 or y is already really competitive price wise now against anything in their sector price wise new. What's the theoretical car / price point people are referring to when they make your point?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    the majority of new cars already have the range, most people now don’t even charge every night and Ireland is tiny

    What we are in now is the “stupid” phase

    People incapable of making a decision and just do what they always do because of fear

    When you see so many running after a small time car dealer for advice I can only call it the “stupid” phase

    How much more do they want them to come down?
    Have they done any sums to quantify at what price they want them to come down to or just they have no idea so just fire this out as a statement to sound like they know what they are talking about?



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    People just don’t like change. Not just cars, for everything as you’ve mentioned.

    Remember people paying €40-€50 a month for mobile phone contracts, swap to meteor, €29. Then GoMo. Then 48 @ €7.99. When you tell people they just say “ohh I’ll look into that”.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,959 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    I don't think calling people stupid is going to get them to join the EV club. If I hadn't already done so reading that wouldnt make me agree with you.

    I feel stupid for buying a car that depreciated 20k in under 2 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,668 ✭✭✭maidhc


    I’m one of those that pays €50 a month for my phone, not because I like paying it, but because each time I switched to one of the cheaper ones it ended in a debacle that cost far more than the €400 ish one might save.

    Hoses for courses. It’s not anti ev to point out shortcomings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    The Irish Examiner article was pretty anti-ev. It regurgitated the musings of a bunch of people, at best ill-informed, at worst downright bonkers with no editorial whatsoever. So these "opinions" were never corrected and just published with the implied imprimatur of a national newspaper.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Its anti EV to make out something as a EV shortcoming when ICE cars suffer from the same thing, often far worse.



  • Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭joe199


    Where miles off having the battery technology to make the range of a use viable, biggest assist stripper is an EV in these times



  • Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭ColemanY2K


    True but I've a petrol so saying a diesel would cut the saving in half is neither here nor there for me personally.

    The cars worth €10k. If I sold it privately and took out a €20k loan then a 2022 Model 3 RWD could be got for circa €30k. Repayments of €388.73 over 5 years with AIB's green loan make the switch very very tempting.

    The only hesitation I have regards the value of a 2022 M3 when for €8k more I could have a brand new Highland. Personally I feel 2022 is overpriced at the moment and certainly a two year old M3 RWD will be much harder to shift at that price in a year or two when second hand Seals appear on the market with bigger batteries and better warranties.

    🌞 7.79kWp PV System. Comprised of 4.92kWp Tilting Ground Mount + 2.87kWp @ 27°, azimuth 180°, West Waterford 🌞



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Much as I love these vague posts could you be a bit more specific? Such as to what low mileage they will be doing and what price they need the cars to come down to?

    If they are truly low mileage and price is a factor then a bus ticket might be the cheapest option for them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    "I know a few people who are looking to buy a new car (they WFH most of the week so low mileage) but unless they come down in price they won't. They would likely buy a 2nd hand one so if they take another step down in prices then I think you will see a lot more join the band".



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I swapped to Gomo when launched and then 48 when released. Whole family on it now.
    Hassle free and unless more swap, the larger monopolies will continue to rip yourself and others off.

    Post edited by Gumbo on


  • Registered Users Posts: 748 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    My last diesel cars were Mazda's. I disliked the things, the first packed in, the turbo went after a long, long history of grinding to a halt or even failing to start. A fuel rack was the solution I think. The turbo was replaced and the car sold for next to nothing a week later as the turbo that failed must have sent bits circulating around with the lubricant wrecking the engine.

    I now have a petrol car, a basic Seat Ibiza that I bought when I retired and I use it only in rural Ireland so far.

    I was concerned about performance I would not have a turbo, I have wrecked too many engines without the need to compress more explosion fodder into the cylinders. Anyway it's fine less than 1000cc but not a liability pulling into traffic. My biggest gripe is the software.

    Strangely enough it was with the Mazda Diesel. I was on a clients site the first day and nipped out to adjust an instrument closing the door with the key in the ignition, it locked itself after a few minutes, Do software engineers live in the real world?

    I wouldn't touch an EV or diesel, the Seat is three years old on limited km insurance wise and is 32,000 km total.

    Not too painful, even if it's the first vehicle I have had for decades that I had to buy fuel for.

    My work in Britain or here would not have been feasible with an EV. I could sometimes shift more than one tank of fuel in a day. I suppose One could get the paperwork done while plugged in, but somehow I dont think waiting for a charge is a good idea.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    I don’t really care if they do or don’t love to electric

    If they are stupid enough to not understand the saving then it’s not my problem to convince them, let them continue to pay my taxes.
    Im not sure why everyone is so upset? As I posted if people are stupid enough to take the advice of a small time car dealer and not ask questions then they have bigger issue than what car they drive


    in terms of depreciation, sorry but all cars depreciate. Doesn’t matter what fuel you stick into them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    You are aware you can get a sim only plan for a lot cheaper with one of the bigger companies?
    Doing quick maths you can work out how much that new phone costs you per device while you can buy a lot cheaper direct from apple etc and still have a sim from a big company

    But bang away paying the 50 a month and think you are getting a better service

    Never heard of anyone who swapped to another service and it cost them 400 euro, the change over is automatic and simple, plus it’s easy to figure out which network the “cheaper” networks are on



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,959 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    Who is the small time dealer you're on about?

    People upset? You're the one calling others stupid



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    the well known dealer who all the media are turnig no to. They are a tiny dealer in Ireland and have zero relevance in reality to the Irish car trade and no main dealer would even touch them


    Yes I call people stupid, what else would you call them?
    I live in Ireland, the average journey for most people is circa 20km isn’t it? To travel from Belfast to Cork is less than 400km. Range anxiety? 🤣🤣

    People will buy electrics because they have the brain power to review the options and pick what is best for them, the same stupid people will be sitting in 10 years time crying because of all the money they spent on a combustion car when they never needed one in the first place



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,668 ✭✭✭maidhc


    yes, for personal use the gomos and 48s are fine. We have a few data sims with Eircom too, but despite the price Vodafone wins always on the voice irrespective of cost. I’m glad to say pricing phones and plans is something I delegate at this stage!

    Equally with cars I don’t drive a Bev because the hassle isn’t worth the savings, if there is any savings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    There obviously are savings with mobile phone plans or BEVs if it works for someone's use case. It's just maths.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    You're mistaken if you assume there aren't unreliable petrol engines.

    Can't be many drivers that do 600 -1200km on a daily basis. (...or would even want to...)



  • Registered Users Posts: 748 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    I know there are unreliable petrol engines of course. My first car was a Morris Ital, and I got to rebuild the engine long before I knew what I was doing :-(

    The car did teach me that Halfords torque wrenches were not to be trusted also.

    I gather even the none turbo three cylinder engines are troublesome on some models. I think my car is 3 cylinder, but I only opened the bonnet twice at most since buying the car. We used to run petrol cars to around 180,000 miles after which they were swapped and became pool cars. None of the Mazdas made it to pool car stage, in fact they were the only deisel engined cars we had, most were variations on a Civic or Focus 1600 and petrol

    I did a lot of miles, I never liked staying out if it was avoidable. Even here where there are not too many boring, plasticy Travelodge type places, I used to commute from near Clonakilty to Tralee daily.

    The hotels are better than Britain for short notice three or four night stays, but after years of trying to avoid the places it was too late to change my habits.

    My company in the UK were not happy with my antics, being concerned about looking bad if I wrote off a few families on the motorway I suppose, but they got used to it!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,959 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    I'd call them the mainstream majority. We are early adopters. They're buying what they want to buy. The cars they like. The cars they can afford. Nobody will be crying in 10 years.

    I've 2 full EVs but let's not forget that a decent proportion of people can't charge at home or work. And it's new technology.

    Let people buy and drive what they want and don't be calling them stupid. It's a divisive tactic. Every bit as much as the articles that are popping up.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




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