Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

ah what are you on about - sher wasn’t it only “that Hamas thing” …..

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13410495/Gary-Lineker-embroiled-Gaza-row-accused-tone-deaf-referring-October-7-terror-attacks-Israel-Hamas-thing.html

Hang on… the nazi's are better because they hid their crimes. That's the point you take from history?

Firstly, the nazi's hid the extermination camps, but they didn't hide all their crimes. They made many of them into laws. The night of broken glass is well documented. They made loads of propaganda videos.

But if the hill you choose to die on is that the Nazi's were better because they built extermination camps outside germany (let's conveniently forget about the concentration camps inside germany), you do you.

Secondly, Israel won't allow foreign journalists into Gaza. They have kicked out an Arab news agency. They are attempting to hide what they're doing. They've killed tens of thousands of innocent women and children. But I guess they're better than Hamas and closer to the Nazi's because they're hiding it?

And we've seen Israeli crowds cheering on the deaths of Palestinian civilians. We've seen Israeli politicians, cabinet members even, call for a genocide. We've seen Israelis hunt down aid workers with drone strikes. We've seen refugee camps of tents hit with massive ordnance. And we've seen israeli civilians destroy humanitarian aid and preventing it from reaching starving children. There's even been Israeli hostages shot in the back when trying to surrender because the soldiers thought they were Palestinians.

And that's besides all the settler crimes we've seen in the westbank along with the ongoing occupation and systematic apartheid

The difference between you and me (and most Palestinian supporters) is that for you only one side can commit crimes. The rest of us will completely condemn what Hamas did and at the same time will be appalled by the death and suffering that's being caused by Israel. This isn't like a football game for us. We don't support one side no matter what. Just for once, it'd be nice to see an israeli supporter call out crimes committed by israel with no whatabouttery or excuses. Just say that's wrong and the people who did it and authorized it and covered it up should be prosecuted.

I heard on Newstalk that some pro-Israelis voted up to 20 times for the song. Madness. Glad it didn't win though as it was all just an effort to make Zionists look normal.

fairly easy to manipulate the vote. all you need is a small number of baby killing enthusiasts in each country.

They only have isreal to vote for, while the normal people have a split of 24 other countries (would have been 25 but isreal got the Dutch kicked out). There is no block voting going on for these voters. They pick the song they like, we gave Croatia 12 points who came second overall. Yet isreal still only came 5th. Pathetic.

I think the mass rapes have never been proven as opposed to debunked. There's enough reports that some sexual assaults/rapes probably occurred, but they didn't perform autopsies and a lot of the evidence is from third parties.

I'm 100% sure that hamas killed civilians. Although there's a good chance that Israel killed some when they were attacking hamas fighters, the vast majority of civilians were killed by Hamas.

The thing is that hamas lost a lot of legitimacy when they attacked civilians. If they'd only attacked military objectives, then a lot more people would have sympathy for them. The situation of gaza is horrible and people would understand attacking Israeli military targets

And I'd say the same about Israel. If Israel wasn't killing so many civilians and completely leveling entire cities, a lot of people would have more support for them.

For me personally, neither side have my support. My support is with the innocent civilians on both sides who have been affected by all this.

”I think the mass rapes have never been proven as opposed to debunked.”

Did they wear condoms? Rape on mass scale should be somewhat readily provable surely with physical evidence from victims. I find it bizarre if it hasn’t been proven in whole or in part.

Fair point. However, when I look at what Israel are doing it puts it in a different context.

If slaves revolted and attacked the slavers, would you blame slavery or the slaves? This doesn't excuse the horrific suicide bombings but I very much view the Israeli's as terrorist cowardly oppressors causing the problems.

If there were equity in the region between the factions and still Hamas was using violence it would be a different story, to me anyway.

reportedly Israeli settlers destroying aid convoys today

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/xVtSSWqO8z

Even the UN dismissed it until they couldn't.

There was someone on Newstalk this morning who stated that Hamas is again active in Northern Gaza after the IDF and Bibi said it was defeated there. He said that the Israelis had ensured that Hamas would survive as the relatives of those bombed and killed were now joining and would probably continue to do so as as such Hamas would be even stronger. In essence what Israel is doing is securing the future of Hamas. Many posters here have been saying the same thing all along.

The way to defeat Hamas is to give the Palestinian people respect and their own state. Stop stealing their land and treat them properly and there will be no need for Hamas in the future. There are better ways instead of murdering their children. That has never worked anywhere.

I haven't been following any live warzone footage, but every now and again a video is shown in the news of Ukrainian soldiers dropping a grenade into a group of Russian soldiers or something of this sort. Is there any shred of footage of any Hamas solider in active combat? (not including October 7th).

With all the bodycams the IDF have, there would surely be a myriad of videos showing engagement with Hamas fighters?

There is a difference between a woman saying "I was attacked" and known propagandists coming out with stories about "women were raped".

I could probably find a post on twitter from some right wing loon saying 10,000 women were attacked by one illegal migrant out at Crooksling …… doesn't mean I have to believe it just because the loon says it happened to women.

Hard to know what is true or fake. Loads of videos like the one below.