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Carlos Who? My ST185 GrpA GT-Four Rally car

2

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Well, sadly as far as I know the car didn't Christine herself back to health during the week so time to get into myself I guess. First steps get the bonnet off & get the car up on some axle stands.

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    ​​​​​​​Water to Air intercooler drained & removed

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    ​​​​​​​Water to Air intercooler drained & removed

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    I'm not going to bore you with every step, but the Air intake, Alt, shock tower bracing, coil, Fuel lines, gearbox linkage, clutch line, & a heap of vacuum lines & electrical connectors all get removed or unplugged.

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    Then I went under the car, first step was to pull the front drive shafts out.. I didn't have a socket to fit over the hub nut, it's a 30mm nut but you need a deep socket & the majority of my tools are imperial for obvious reasons.. so a quick dash to the tool shop was needed.  

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    Then disconnect the steering arm from the front & unbolt the hub from the coilover, this allows you to pull the hub down & at just enough of an angle to let you slide the axle shaft out of the hub. Then you just yank on the shaft like you're in a shake weight advert & it will make a noise that you inner child will once to laugh at when it finally pops out of the gearbox

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Next do the other side & then I removed the front section of the rear drive shaft 

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    There are two braces that live under the engine/gearbox & they need to come off to... the first is an east-west brace that ties into the lower control arms 

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    The north-south brace also has a front & rear engine & gearbox mount fitted to it

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    Oh & if you've ever wondered what an FIA turbo restrictor looks like, it's this cute little bit

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    By now it was getting late on Sat night & the exhaust had a nut that really hard to get a spanner onto to, was very tight & has been rounded off slightly by a previous owner for my convenience... as I was starting to get frustrated with it, I just used a torch to heat it up & then quenched it in WD40 & decided to call it for the night before I just damaged it. I'll deal with it with a clearer head on Sunday morning was the thought process.

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    Other than the exhaust the only other two things to do are... figure out how to disconnect the power steering unit, not sure if I'll try & remove the pump from the engine whilst it's in the car or leave the pump on & just drain it remove the lines & the reservoir. I also have to work out how to disconnect the wiring from the engine, the loom is so entwined through the engine I'm starting to think that it might be easiest to disconnect the whole loom from the car & remove it with the engine now.... I'll think about that as I'm cursing the exhaust nut this morning.

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    Once I've done the above then it's just attach the engine crane & undo the two engine mounts... still haven't fully decided if I'll pull the engine up & out or lower it down & out... thinking my preference is up & out but that will be bloody tight by the looks of it.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Had a fresh start Sunday morning & got that exhaust undone without any additional damage to the nut & bolt... always good to start out with a win, no matter how small. 

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    The next mini nightmare was the wiring... the manual says to unplug the ECU under the dash & to pull the wiring through into the engine bay via this neat little hole & then remove the engine with the wiring attached...

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    Nice idea, but this car has had a second piggy back Motec ECU wired in & the connection plug & additional wiring for that make the loom too big to fit thru that hole on the firewall, so short of unpinning the Motec connector or cutting the wiring with the death wheel on the angle grinder (I did briefly smile at this thought) I was going to have to take the wiring off the engine

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    Why was this an issue, because in Toyota's wisdom the wiring passes through some of the dumbest & tightest places of the engine, I lost a lot of blood & some of my mind getting this all off without breaking anything.. I had to remove the throttle body in the end as the wiring passed under it tucked super tightly against the curve of the intake in a hard plastic cover that made it a nightmare to get out 

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    After an appropriate amount of time picturing what I'd do to the Toyota engineer who dreamt this up if I ever got the chance & generally questioning my life choices I ended up with all the wiring now off the engine & in a big messy pile on the side of the engine bay... reinstalling this is of course future Dave's problem & feck am I'm glad I'm not him...

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    There was a lot of swearing for the next hour & not a lot of pictures taken but man for car from the dry state of Western Australia some many of the nuts & bolts where rusted & seized on.. I was only just able to get the pipe fitting for the gearbox oil cooler off without damaging anything, the hard line for the clutch sadly left this mortal coil, the power steering pump bolts where so hard to get too & torqued to... well all the torques I guess that I almost took to the power steering lines with the death wheel.. but they finally came undone. Then the engine crane was attached so I could test the tensile strength of everything I'd missed in operation disconnect everything from the engine   

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    Also the lead technical advisor I'd brought in had lied on his CV clearly... I no longer believe he worked for TTE in the early 90's & he refused to get under the car due to his floof being an attractant for oils & other fluids he said

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    I knew more bits would have to come off to get the great big lump out of the car but I waned to take off as little as possible but some stuff was obvious, like the turbo & manifold setup... bugger me is this a heavy lump

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    Both engine mounts & brackets came off as did the rear output housing of the transfer case

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Then I figured that was enough & this stupid lump should be able to be lifted out... this was the late afternoon of day two of this mess & I'd had two different mates pop over across the two days to help & that was so gratefully received... but to quote the Knight from that Indiana Jones movie, I chose well... Mrs_XB was there 100% of the time & not just standing off to the side making sarcastic comments but up to her armpits in gear oil & road grime.. I'm very lucky that she doesn't just accept my hobby as the mental illness it is she actively encourages & helps me in the madness.   

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    Jesus this engine, gearbox & transfer case lump is huge.. it'll be fun figuring how to break this down without damaging anything 

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    I wonder if I could get a 6ltr LS in there......

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    Tonight's job now will be cleaning up the massive mess I've made, cleaning & putting away all the tools & bolting any bits that came off the car than can go back on back on so I don't have to find a spot to store them & I can't forget where they go. Then I'll start googling how to pull the big oily broken bit apart I guess... 

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Went out tonight to clean up the mess... I collected all the nuts & bolts & put them all back in their homes on the car or the engine. When I remove them again I'll bag & tag them correctly, I went through everything including the parts pile of removed bits removed & I know where everything goes... well except for one small bolt, buggered if I can remember where this part goes, so I've already improved om Toyota engineers work by adding lightness in the removal of this clearly unnecessary bolt from the car.

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    Put the wheels back on the car & dropped her back to the ground, I tossed around the idea of putting the bonnet back on but in the end settled for just resting it on the roof for now. It's safe enough there. It's a lot easier to push the car around now that I've removed what's probably close to half a ton from the front... there's your tech tip for the day. 

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Went back out to the shed tonight... lifted the engine & gearbox unit back into the air so I could remove the inspection plate

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    ​​​​​​​Then remove the two brackets that bolt the transfer case to the side of the block

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    Then lowered it back down onto the dolly & undid all the bellhousing bolts & then wiggled the hell out of the gearbox to try & break it from from the engine.. it was a bit of a bugger but it broke free

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    I'll clean the gearbox & transfer case up now that they are off & free... not sure if I should paint it or just clean it & leave it raw?

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    Next step was pull the clutch & flywheel off.. the clutch looks fine, but I guess it would be pretty stupid not to change it out now whilst everything is apart...

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    I drained the oil out & it didn't look too bad there was only the tiniest hint of sliver to it, it you weren't looking for it you probably wouldn't have noticed it. I then removed the filter & got my opener out to see what was in the filter. 

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    Even looking at the filter it doesn't look like its covered in metal, there is some glitter there for sure but I'm starting to think it's not catastrophic inside this engine... maybe, hopefully, fingers crossed etc...

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    I used my magnetic wand to pull all the metal fragments out of the filter & I'm thinking that this really looks like it's all bearing material... if I've only destroyed bearings maybe scored the crank a little then I'll call this a win 

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    I didn't have the right size bolts to mount the engine to the engine stand & my local hardware shop didn't have them in stock either... so sadly that ended play tonight, I would have loved to pull the engine down tonight but now that will have to wait. I'm busy the next two nights so I think it'll be Friday evening at the earliest that I can get this engine stripped down to see just how bad the damage is.

    Feel free to start a betting pool as to just how fecked you think it is.... 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Got the correct bolts & now the engine is up on the stand

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    I've started doing a little research & it seems that the oil cooler that the filter mounts to is not something that should be reused after a bearing failure in one of these engines... sadly Toyota no longer make these, so I can go looking for a 2nd hand one & hope that it hasn't come from an engine that just had the same issue mine did or I can look to delete it completely & see what it can be replaced with.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Right lets get into the engine tear down... first step was to remove the intake, this then allows access to the weird TVS or TVIS as I've seen it labelled elsewhere, this variable airflow system is to help with torque at low RPM I believe

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    Looks to be stock cams in the head & looks like no porting has been done, so there is scope here for some gains during the rebuild.

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    Can't get the distributor off yet as the screws are ugga dugga'd all the way on & I've bend my torx but trying to undo them. They will have a date with a small nut & the welder at some point.

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    I'll spare you all the pics I took during the teardown, it all went to plan other than needing a quick dash to the tool store to get a set of male spline sockets so I could undo the head bolts as I've never needed to remove this style of fastener before

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    The cams look fine, they have a little wear but I suspect that they are the originals & as such have 201K on them, the buckets in the head look fine too but I suspect that all of this stuff will be upgraded for the rebuild 

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    I was happily surprised by how good the bores look with the head off, you can see that this was rebuilt not that long ago, you can still see the hash marks on the bores.. it looks like I got very lucky here & there is no bore scoring at all from the failure 

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Now for the fun stuff... rolled the engine over on the stand so I could get the sump off... the bottom of the sump was full of swarf as was the screen on the pick up... clearly things have not gone well inside here

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    The end caps on Rods 2, 3 & 4 all look like this

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    ​​​​​​​But Rod number 1 looks very discoloured from heat 

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    This video kinda tells you all you need to know

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Lg1jCYr_qck



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    There was not a trace of bearing shell left in the number one big end... the inside of the rod is badly scared too, the crank journal I think can be saved with a light linish as it's not too bad when I drag my nail across it 

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    The big end bearing for rod number 2 was about sooooo close to failing, another few RPM run & it would have let go too

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    With the rods & pistons out a full inspection of the bores can be done & again I think I've dodged a bullet here & there is no real damage to be seen at all, the rods & pistons looks good quality & new but I'll probably look at replacing them all as I can't find any brand markings on them 

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    The main crank bearings are another tale of a super close call... I don't think you can get much closer to a bearing failure than this with it letting go, I was so lucky that this thing didn't seize up on me sending a rod out of the block 

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    So that's it... one rod is dead nothing else seems to be, if I knew the brand of rod I could probably just order 1 replacement rod & rebuild from there. But I'm thinking that this failure was the racing gods way of telling me that they wanted me to upgrade the internals, so I think I'll be doing just that. The block is fine & I'm pretty sure that the crank could & would clean up too. I may end up reusing the crank, I'm not decided on that just yet.

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    I've already ordered a new Moroso baffled sump for the rebuild & I've gotten a new oil cooler just in case I opt to use that in the rebuild.

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    I think I've found an engine shop for the rebuild too, they are Toyota specialist.. Supra's mostly but they say on their site that they started with 3S-GTE's so I'll go & have a chat with them on what I want. I've also ordered a full set of replacement suspension bushes as this car is running on old cracked rubber bushes today & that's just not right.  I have some other ideas for upgrades/improvements too so I guess this is officially a project car now... just what I **** needed... 🤔

    ​​​​



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    My shiny new baffled sump turned up... it's a really nice piece of kit. You don't notice how angled the engine is in the car but this sump is setup so the bottom is flat when installed.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Not much to update here, other than I have a decision on the direction of the build.... so my options where to rebuild my 3S block or I could have looked at a 5S block build, these take a little more machining work to make the 5S block work with the gearbox & transfer case etc in an ST185.

    I'd found a good guy here to do the build work & have a good plan put in place with him. Then I somehow got uber lucky & an opportunity that I just couldn't refuse presented itself to me. 

    I am now the proud owner of an actual TTE 3S engine block... yes that TTE of the actual Toyota Rally team that ran these cars.  These blocks are stronger with extra webbing & the oil galleries are improved etc & the big difference is that they are 3mm shorter than a stock 3S block when it comes to deck height. This lower deck height increased the comp ration & the shorter pistons reduce the weight of the rotating assembly.

    The downside is that that lower deck height needs custom pistons, so as you would expect I'm sure that they are cheaper & easier to find that stock sized pistons would be.... so they'll probably be the long pole in the build timeline tent as they will be a custom order.

    My engine builder & I snuck up on my credit card in a dark alley & have beaten it to within an inch of it's life.... so much for my ideas of a simple budget build, this is the parts list that's been ordered so far:

    TTE 3s Block
    3SGTE crank
    Gaskets set (full)
    Titanium retainers
    Brian crower valves
    Brian crower valve springs
    Brian crower H beam rods
    Gen2 exhaust manifold (mine was cracked when inspected) 
    ARP main stud set
    ARP head stud set
    Hux headstud hats
    Genuine Toyota Oil pump
    Genuine Toyota waterpump
    TVIS eliminator



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭geotrig


    oh looking forward to the tte engine build now ! take more pictures than normall will you !! can only imagine the crazy costs having seen some bits and pieces before !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Ok... so turns out that the guy I got the unused still in the crate TTE engine block off also had a brand new still in the box TTE head.... so no need to tell you the obvious, but here is my new TTE head

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    This head has all the porting & polishing that I would have paid a machine shop to do to mine anyway & have some additional castings webbing for flex resistance. When you add the costs of the fact that the porting & polishing is already done on these & that I would needed to have that done on mine, plus I needed mine skimmed & crack & hardness tested these are a cheap & even if I do say so myself cool purchase. 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    I can't remember now if I'd pointed out before that all of the suspension bushes are the original rubber items & are as you'd expect quiet worn. To that end I'd order a long list of bits out of the UK to rectify this. I'd ordered:

    - Front Sway Bar End Links 
    - Rear Anti-Rollbar links 
    - Front Anti-Rollbar Bushes 27mm 
    - Rear Anti-Rollbar Bushes 18mm 
    - 3S-GTE Engine Mounts set - RED 
    - Rear Subframe Bushes & Top Diff Mounts - RED 
    - Celica Turbo 4WD Rear Diff Mount Cushion - RED 
    - Celica ST185 Front Bushes - RED 
    - Celica ST185  Suspension Bushes Kit Rear - RED

    These look like nice bits of kit I have to say, I've just inspected the steering rack bushes & I think that whilst the engine & gearbox are out I'll order a new set to replace them also.... hopefully they make them in red too.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    You'll be glad to know that they do make the steering rack bushes in Red... so a set has been ordered now.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    I've put the car back up on the hoist now, I plan to do all the rear suspension bits first.. but now that I'm looking at it, I'm wondering if I can actually get the back end up high enough on the hoist to be able to drop the whole rear subframe out in one go? I'll need to study this closely, I may actually be better off with the car on the ground jacked up on old school stands that gives me more room to slide the subframe out... guess we find out soon.

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    Sadly none of these parts where in labelled bags.. so a game also has to be played now to match them to the correct suspension part they fit, so are easy but others less so. Hopefully once the parts are off it will all be obvious. 

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Operation remove the rear subframe or diff cradle depending on who you talk too started this afternoon, first step was to remove the tail shaft. I go find a driveshaft place to have this refurbed, seems stupid to not do that job now as it's out of the car.

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    ​​​​​​​Because of where I think I want to jack up the car from I need to remove these brackets that go to the front most mounts as I think I want to have the jacking points where the two body attaching bolt holes for this bracket are. 

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    It took way longer to get these disks off than it should have, the spacer had fused to the threads on the studs.. I'll be using lots of copper grease when it comes time to reinstall. 

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    I know now why the handbrake is so weak... these is less than a mm of material left on these shoes, so new shoes & hardware have been ordered.

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    I'm not removing the rear shocks as I don't need to so I've just disconnected them from the spindles, the drivers side is fully done & ready to drop the subframe, just need to dismantle the passenger side handbrake assembly tomorrow morning & then it's only 4 bolts that hold the whole subframe to the car. Then I can play the fun game of how to slide this out from under the car in one oversized piece. 

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Spent some time this morning in the shed & this went smoother than I could have hoped, this is another one of those jobs that's really a 2 post hoist job & not a 4 post hoist job but with a little thought there is little to nothing you can't do on a 4 poster. I got the transmission jack out & slid that under the center of the diff cradle to take the weight 

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    Then just undo the 4 big nuts that hold the cradle to the car & gently lower the whole assembly down with the jack 

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    Lower it down till the bottom of the cradle is at the same height as the ramp of the hoist & then just slide it over so that the cradle is sitting on the ramp

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    Then just slide it off the ramp & onto the waiting table 

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    At least one of the bearings of the tail shaft has been rubbing & is worn so I'll send this off to a driveshaft shop & have it all replaced whilst it's out.

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    Next steps are to strip it all apart, clean & paint it & pop in the new bushes & then reassembly & reinstall.... this should be fun 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Started pulling this apart this morning, I was prepared for stuck & rusted on bolts & for some of it to put up a proper fight.. but I was very happy when everything went much easier than I could ever have expected. Pulled the hub off first.

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    Then removed the two arms & the driveshaft & rinse & repeat on the other side 

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    ​​​​​​​Then disconnected the two blots at the back of the diff housing that attaches what they seem to call the diff cushion 

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    Now the Diff is held in with four long bolts that attached it to the crossmember & that cross member is attached to the frame with two large bolts, with all that undone the diff & that cross member are free. 

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    I'm going to focus on cleaning & painting the frame, the diff & the cross member first, so the arms & shafts etc can just sit under the table for now.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Next is operation press out the old bushes, I was again expecting this to be a big fight as it often is... again I was shocked how easily these came out, the spit stell shell design that Toyota used on these was genius for when it's time to pop them out, just a tiny bit of pressure & they pop right out.

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    I even just tried removing one with just a hammer hitting the metal sleeve & just that on it's own was enough to pop one out... mind blown. 

    One of the bushes that held the diff crossmember in place was actually broken up, so that explains the clunk you often got when backing off the gas maybe... even if that wasn't what was making the noise it's unlikely that a broken wobbly bushing was a good thing.

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    The crossmember and frame are cleaned up now & ready to be painted & have the new bushes installed tomorrow.

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    Just the diff & all the arms to focus on tomorrow



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    I have a new rear ARB to go into the car & as that is easiest done with the diff & rear cradle out of the car, no time like the present. Disconnected the old end links & the decided double check that the new bar was the right shape before I pull the old one out.

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    With that confirmed pulled out the old bar, turns out that this is not the stock bar but is also a Whiteline bar, but unlike my new Whiteline bar it's not adjustable.

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    Installing the new bar in at the medium stiffness setting for now

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    The diff cradle or subframe or whatever you want to call it along with the diff crossmember are now cleaned & painted & ready to have the new body mount bushes installed

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    I've cleaned the diff but I've decided not to paint it... because racecar & I think I'm at risk of making this a huge rebuild project if I don't just do some things to a "good enough for the girls we date level"

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    With the diff installed back in it's home its time to reinstall the whole frame back into the car

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    Then things took a shite turn, when pressing the old rubber bushes out of the lower control arms the arm slid off the socket that I was pressing the old bush out into & it bent the bar instantly ruining it..... bugger

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    I sat in the shed wallowing in the emotional phase of this problem whilst I finished my cup of tea... then I switch into the solutioning phase of the problem & got on the interwebs to source a solution to this. To be honest I'm mostly annoyed that I didn't get to finish the job this weekend which was really the goal. I hoping that the parts I've ordered turn up next week & I can get this end back on it's wheels next weekend.  



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    I got a new bush removal tool the other day as I was fed up trying to use sockets for the job, it comes with 5 diameters of threaded bar to use but I mostly got the kit to use with my actual jack press as it's the many many steel press cups that I wanted.

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    That's the last bush replaced now so I have tomorrow off work & I might even try & get most of the suspension back on.

    Speaking of suspension.... a box of very nicely made, very shiny parts rocked up today from NZ.... This is a fully set of adjustable arms for the rear & two new fully adjustable front lower arms too.

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    They are really well made by the looks of it & all rose joints instead of bushes where they mount to the body

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    I've only assembled one of the front arms for this pic, these are beefy units 

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    Just need to take OE arm length measurements & then adjust this stuff to match so it's at least close when I put it on.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Started bolting stuff back on... thought I'd put the hub & the driveshaft back on first & then install the arms one at a time after measuring them up against the OE arms to try & get them close to right to start with.

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    Installing the front lower arm was a massive pain, the stock arm is held in with a camber adjustable bolt on the stock arm for adjustment. This new setup has semi spherical spacers & these nifty washers that fill the camber adjustment slots in so that the bar can't move anymore. 

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    After installing all the arms, I realised that it was a dumb idea to put the hub & driveshaft in first as they where just in my way 

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    For the other side I chose to fit the arms first, much faster to do it that way.

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    Now to focus on the front later in the week or on the weekend.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Last thing to do at the rear was to fit the new handbrake shoes, this is such a fiddley job to do as there is little to no space to get your fingers in there. There is an lever arm that connects to the handbrake cable that you need to take off the old shoe to reuse as they are not supplied with the new shoe kit.

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    Next up I'll attack the front on the weekend... I have new polly bushes for the swaybar & for the steering rack  

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    Then for the main game the whole lower arms are going in the bin to be replaced by my shiny new adjustable bits, I also need different sway bar links too for the new lower arms.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Started with the super simple bits, the sway bar rubbers where really shagged so definitely needed replacing 

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    There was no damage to the old steering rack rubbers, these new polly ones are just stiffer & remove movement from the mountings

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    There are 3 parts to the new front arm, the rear bracket that goes here

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    The front adjustable part of the arm that used to adjust the camber & has the 3 holes for the adjustability of the sway bar 

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    Then the rear adjustable arm that adjusts the castor angle   

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    I was super happy at how easily the old front arm unbolted & came off the car

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    Then I sat the old & new side by side so I could get the initial arm length adjustment as close as I could to how the car was set up

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    I'm still waiting on science to make us genetically modified octopus to help in the shed on jobs like this, this think is adjustable & flexible in so many directions it was hard to install it without getting hit by a flopping arm in the head... but I got it on & in

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    These seem to be a great bit of kit, bolt right in with no issues, are really well made & I thing they look bloody awesome too... hopefully it won't be too long & I'll know how they actually perform too 

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    Figured I might as well throw the bonnet back on too, there's no need for it to just be sitting on the roof the whole time, kinda nice & motivating to see the car looking like a car again too

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