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The National Party

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,096 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Yeah downplay. You called them wannabe fascists a while ago. For some reason you can't quite admit they are fascists.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭crusd


    I love the way some can never just admit they were wrong about something and move on with a greater understanding. Instead they just keep digging in deeper in to a quagmire of nonsense they have constructed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,331 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Well exactly. A country where people die if their relatives can't fund healthcare for them is in no way socialist.

    Scrap the cap!



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,459 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    It's the standard obsession with ideological purity these types have. They're never wrong, everyone else is just an extremist.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,007 ✭✭✭Shoog


    I love the fig leaf of calling yourself centrist as a justification for been utterly biased.



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,553 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I am a centerist too. I believe the entire apparatus of the state should be dismantled and the proletariat should rise up and seize the means of production.

    Doesn't get much more centerist than that lads.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,609 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Well everyone's a centrist if they're allowed to put the center marker anywhere they want…

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,363 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    So if facts don't suit you, you can just ignore them because feelings? OK good to know where your heads at.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,363 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    I highlight the fact that compared (in Ireland) the far rights reach is nowhere near the far left. Incidentally, any time I express an opinion on this you're there to remark on it.

    They have fascists beliefs, they'd love to be able to play them out as far right groups in other countries do but they can't, hence the wannabe tag.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭crusd


    I refuse to believe this is anything but an elaborate parody accound at this stage



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,491 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Hmmm…the sheer nonsensical drivel on this thread is a good reminder why I have that particular poster on ignore.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭paul71


    I have a little anecdote, I know they are discouraged but I will relate it anyway. I follow athletics, and in the last 4 years I have been tremendously excited by the emergence of Rhasidat Adeleke. A young lady with Nigerian parents, born in Dublin and brought up in Tallaght. I honestly believe she has the potential to be the female Usan Bolt. I think over the next 3 or 4 Olympics she will get golds in the 100m, 200m and 400m.

    If I don't get to watch her race live an TV I try catch it later on youtube. Over the last 3 or 4 years while looking at the comments on those videos on youtube (I know, I asked for it) I noticed a lot of the usual racist vitriol. I tended to Ignore it. Last night while watching the Irish mixed 400x4 relay team win Bronze in the world relay championships I noticed a comment "She is not Irish", I was struck by a recollection on another video and went back, same name, same comment. I went back over about 15 videos of Rhasidats races over the last 4 years, same name, same comment.

    I clicked on the username and to my surprise found that he had not protected his youtube account. All his subscribtion channels there to see. He had about 100 channel subscriptions, Brexit Party, Tony Robinson and The Irish Freedom party.

    The rest of his subscriptions were Lingerie channels, young girls doing clothing tryouts, Female Athleths, female yoga classes.

    Once you scratch just a little you just always seem to find that these "charactors" are seriously sad and damaged individuals. Racist masturbators sitting devouring unhinged political opinion on youtube should be a comical stereotype, sadly is it not, its a reality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,363 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Same lad probably sang ooh ahh Paul McGrath back in the day.

    Sad we've become so polarised, the stupidity is always there, these days it's being pointed in that direction unfortunately.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,553 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    ah now you’re acting the rapscallion. I’m not the one presenting opinions as facts. You are. You’re also ignoring the core of my point.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,363 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    The core of your point was that Ireland has a social democracy, I refuted that point and now you're stating that your opinion has greater value than an accepted fact and engaging in name calling.

    Here's Graham's hierarchy of disagreement.

    I refuted your central point. You resorted to name calling. Somehow you feel you've got the upper hand.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,054 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    @Nullzero threadbanned

    Everyone else, back on topic please



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,096 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Indeed. Says a lot that you can't bring yourself to say the National Party are fascists.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 756 ✭✭✭RonanG86


    I suppose to some people that Justin Barrett was openly saying he was a fascist in the past couple of weeks, has in the past couple of years praised Hitler, quoted Mein Kampf, engaged in Holocaust Denial, adopted Hitler's mannerisms whilst speaking, turned up to an anti-immigration protest in a Nazi uniform (which I'm sure his supporters, sorry, ordinary blokes who just have valid issues with immigration and aren't far right racists, no way, will say was "a joke") and given Nazi salutes, is irrelevant since he's no longer leader of the National Party.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,744 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    is irrelevant since he's no longer leader of the National Party.

    and is now leader of the innocuosly named Clann Eireann; sure aren't we all just one big happy family?





  • Fascism was a political movement within the context of the 1920s - 1940s.

    Although it seems tedious, the National Party aren't "fascists" because they do not belong to that era. You can instead refer to them as "Neo-fascistic" or "Neo-Nazi", only if those labels stack up.

    Fundamental elements of fascism in that era include:

    • a dictatorial leader / centralized autocracy
    • militarism / positive view of violence in political pursuits / expansion of the nation into empire
    • forcible suppression of all political opposition parties
    • belief in a master race / racial superiority
    • economic self-sufficiency / autarky

    Let's compare those five features of fascism with the "principles" laid out by the National Party:

    The National Party believes that the territory of Ireland consists of the whole island of Ireland, its islands and the territorial seas.

    Revival of the Irish language.

    Opposition to Mass Immigration and a Commitment to Remigration.

    Insistence on the Rights of the Unborn Child.

    Leaving the EU.

    Nation Before State.

    Restoration of the Irish currency.

    The National Party believes in the principle of a Constitutional Republic.

    Restoration of Capital Punishment.

    Indigenous Enterprise, Home Ownership and Private Property.

    Empowerment of Local Government.

    Now does that mean there aren't any neo-fascist or Neo-Nazi members of the National Party? I'm sure there probably are — and I'm sure that you can or will bring up some examples.

    But to call the party a "fascist" party is a stretch; it doesn't stack up. You're unnecessarily elevating the party to a standard that they simply do not meet. The criteria isn't there. It betrays an understanding of actual fascism in history.

    So whilst I have no support for the party, it is more accurate to refer to the party as far-right and/or nationalist.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,007 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Thats just ignorant. Fascism is an ideology not an era in right wing politics. Fascism is just as relevant a term today as it ever was.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on




  • I didn't say the term wasn't relevant, I argued that the National Party is more accurately described as far-right / nationalist.

    The leap to neo-fascism doesn't work for the reasons I outlined in my previous post.

    Far-right nationalism and fascism are not synonymous terms.

    If you are going to argue that the National Party are "neo-fascist", you'd need to supply evidence that they align with what I listed above — namely:

    a dictatorial leader / centralized autocracy

    militarism / positive view of violence in political pursuits / expansion of the nation into empire

    forcible suppression of all political opposition parties

    belief in a master race / racial superiority

    economic self-sufficiency / autarky

    Not a sleight-of-hand version of one or two, but actual policies stated by the National Party that align with all the above.

    Do you have that evidence?

    If not, then perhaps we should agree that far-right nationalism is a more accurate description.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,176 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Leaving aside your misunderstanding of what fascism is or how the NP's eleven principals do appear to align against your 1930s list, I note that "Revival of the Irish language" is a core principal of theirs and important enough to them to place it #2 in their list of eleven principals.

    Why then is their website not available through Irish?

    They have a link to www.pairtinaisiunta.ie on their website but this does not work.

    It's like they haven't considered their list properly!

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on




  • Oh I agree with you on the language point.

    I'm certainly not here to defend the National Party.

    They're a party of clowns as far as I'm concerned, with not an ounce of wider public support in the country.

    But that doesn't mean we can casually throw around terms like fascism, or to dilute what fascism actually means.

    Fascism is many times more in magnitude worse than what the National Party currently sells itself to be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,636 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Well, if you've read Litler's admiring essay on the Führerprinzip, you'll have no difficulty ticking the first box. And his comment about the Brownshirts will enable you tick the second and boxes.

    Etc, etc. It's really not difficult to make the case that the NP is a consciously fascist-inspired and fascist-emulating movement. And I'm a firm believer in the principle that, when people show you who they are, you should believe them. At this point they've got themselves into a position where it's really up to them to convince me that they are not fascists. They're making no effort do do that. And I have a pretty shrewd idea as to why.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,980 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    How about this?

    They are a Far right/Nationalist party populated by people with a very strong affinity to Nazi leaders of the past , what with Justin Barrett and his clearly stated admiration of Adolf Hitler( not to mention his cos-playing) and James Reynolds and his "fondness for Mussolini" .

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on




  • That's exactly the kind of nonsense I would expect to hear from a far-right nationalist party.

    More importantly, James Reynolds amassed a grand total of 1.73% (983 votes) for Longford-Westmeath in the 2020 General Election.

    So no matter what label we agree on, the wider public have no interest in the party policies whatsoever.

    They're a political irrelevance; a bunch of deluded clowns — and that will remain permanent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,007 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Thats not remotely the same as saying they aren't a party based firmly on fascist principles. They are dangerous because their public profile enables those fascist elements of our society who would happily murder immigrants and transgender people in the name of their fascist beliefs.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on




  • How many National Party members in this country have explicitly murdered immigrants and transgender people in this country on the specific basis of "their fascist beliefs"?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,007 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Assaults on immigrants and LGBT people have gone through the roof recently, so don't try to claim that these people aren't dangerous.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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