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Experts calling for Operation Transformation to be taken off the air

«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭drury..


    People love the idea of losing weight but don't like doing it

    Stupid talking about taking the show off air , there's a market for it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,784 ✭✭✭jackboy


    There is a massive push now from the pharmaceutical industry to promote and normalise their products as a primary treatment for obesity. Expect much more of this and more rubbishing of the importance of lifestyle changes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,790 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    It is not fair of someone who can control their weight through simple regular exercise and a simple healthy diet does not do this, and instead puts the costs on the quality of their life, their family, society and the taxpayer.

    Now, there can be many reasons why someone can't do this as you outlined. But for others, simple changes can make a huge difference.

    Operation Transformation like programmes and content can help but they trigger an obsession with body image in society . I don't think RTE do this intentionally or try to profit from it. They do it from best intentions point of view.

    But if you look at social media in general, there is an avalanche of diet/weight/body related issues and this stuff causes huge mental health eating disorder, body dismorohia issues. And disgustingly there are bad actors profitting from this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kaymin


    Then you have the Irish obesity tsar, Donal O'Shea, saying 'Eat less, move more is not the treatment of obesity – get over it'. It's hardly a surprise we have an obesity crisis when this is the view of those at the top.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/doctors-warned-to-stop-telling-obese-patients-eat-less-move-more-is-their-treatment/a1838111061.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭drury..


    "Weight gain is 90pc irreversible for 90pc of people"

    Could be influenced by one of the companies developing drugs



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,450 ✭✭✭nigeldaniel


    When I first saw op transformation my reaction was it tended to patronise people. Standing near nude on a scale and hold your breath for 30 seconds while you find out if you lost or gained in the previous week. It could be done far more kindly if some one gave it proper thought.

    Dan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,441 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I'm always baffled when I hear him on the radio.

    As a medical expert, you'd think that he would acknowledge that people sitting in front of tv, taking no exercise and having too many takeaways, is the major cause of obesity in Ireland.

    But he never mentions people eating too much. Is this a new tact the authorities are taking? Afraid to blame the victim? Or call them out?

    He keeps calling it a disease. And keeps saying its not the overweight person's fault.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kaymin


    Agreed, I think they've stopped doing that over the last couple of years. The one thing Op Transformation tries to do is to get participants to permanently change their lifestyle. And it works in that they lose weight over the course of the programme. If anything it proves Mr O'Shea wrong in that exercising more and eating less does help fight obesity - it's a new lifestyle that has to be maintained though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭purifol0


    In a country where GP's are legally allowed to be bribed by big pharma, taking what they say at face value is not smart.

    Neither is watching O.T.

    Hell even my mum who is their target demograpghic found it unwatchable due to the saccharine bullshit backstory attached to "contestants".

    Happy to say that my mum also was done with being overweight and losing mobility so she joined a gym and now goes three times a week & walks in the park on the other days. Lost a noticable amount in under a year and is able to go on hill walks with her grandkids. All this due to willpower. No ozempic prescription needed, thanks Doc.

    Oh and OT can go **** itself trying to make out that the excercise needed is running in the pissing rain on the side of a busy road in the dark. They dishonestly take the joy out of a good workout.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,441 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    The experts view seems to be 'give all the overweight people Ozempic and it'll save us a fortune in 40 years time'.

    The manufacturers are going to get VERY rich out of the over eaters.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,624 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    Despite scientific evidence to the contrary, the prevailing view in society is that obesity is a choice that can be reversed by voluntary decisions to eat less and exercise more. These assumptions mislead public health policies, confuse messages in popular media, undermine access to evidence-based treatments, and compromise advances in research  https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0803-x

    But you don't want to hear the science, do you?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,982 ✭✭✭Deeper Blue


    It's now been cancelled according to Rte themselves.

    I used to watch it and enjoyed it but it became more and more about sob stories as it went on. Probably the right decision



  • Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭purifol0




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,711 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Would he know more than you on this topic I wonder?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 664 ✭✭✭Sonic the Shaghog


    I'd say it's more their desperately trying to cut anything they can to cut costs. Their dying to get rid of dancing with the stars too but the viewership remains high so it's got another season. God knows what the "experts" and KT cost them on OT



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,394 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    do you think eating less and moving more would not be beneficial for an obese person? Im sure there are people who legitimately have underlying health problems that make them prone to obesity, the same way im sure that people eating 2,000 empty calories for lunch dont and just need a lifestyle change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,665 ✭✭✭HBC08


    Never had any time for OT,just not for me.

    I did watch it a few times and I felt its no harm educating people about weight loss exercise,lifestyle,calories, etc.

    Of course there are exceptions but for the vast majority maintaining a calorie deficit (however you want to do that) will result in weight loss.Its does take a bit of discipline and control but hey,that's life.

    Kathyrn Thomas will probably be cancelled in a few years over hosting this show.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭JayRoc


    I spent years telling people (in a professional capacity, I was working as a coach in personal training/weight loss clinic) that if you consume more calories than you expend, you gain weight. And if you expend more calories than you consume, you lose weight.

    No one wants to believe it's that simple (because, apart from anything else, there is a multi-billion euro international industry telling you it isn't). Simple doesn't always equal easy, too, to be fair.

    Exercise is vital for overall health, longevity and quality of life, but (even though few people who make money from the personal training industry will admit it) if you're eating calorie-dense crap all day exercise will make very little/no difference in weight loss terms.

    Want to lose weight? Find out how much energy is in the food you eat. It has never been easier. Then simply make choices that mean you consume less energy than you expend.

    That's it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,782 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Em you’re hardly some genius for telling us what 99% of people already know.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭JayRoc


    Meow!

    If everyone knows it (and they should, I agree) then what is being discussed on this very thread?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 169 ✭✭rowantree18


    I'm always baffled by O'Shea too. I spent 20 years in Medical Genetics and the number of people presenting with truly genetic causes for their obesity was miniscule. (There are, certainly, multifactorial causes of obesity where a person's genetic makeup contributes to the propensity to obesity).

    If you look at "Reelin' in the years", Irish people were way slimmer. It seems reasonable to say that cheap, fatty, sugary, processed foods which are literally everywhere and less movement has made people heavier.

    I actually liked operation transformation when Eva was the doctor. We need straight talking Finns and fewer american style touchy feely crap. Tell it like it is. In one EU country I lived in, if your kid was too fat at school, they were sent to a special school during the summer to learn about healthy food/cooking/exercise and basically made lose weight. We'd have a national outcry here if that happened, and yet if parents won't take responsibility who will???



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kaymin


    You would think so but then does he know more than the NHS, WebMD, Cleveland Clinic, Mayo Clinic etc etc, combined?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 243 ✭✭Murt2024


    Lets promote been a fast lazy slob eating crap food. I've never seen someone become obese on a proper diet and regular exercise.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,624 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    Laughable to suggest WebMD is a 'medical authority' as you did in your OP. Next well be hearing James Patterson should get the Nobel prize for literature.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,797 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Looks like OT was eating into the RTE budget.

    It started out good but all the hard luck stories and telling them they were great because they lot 2 lbs was annoying to have to listen to every week.

    It sould have been like The Biggest Loser Australia where they were pushed until they nearly passed out.

    The fat would fall off them after a few weeks of that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kaymin




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,726 ✭✭✭Nermal


    It's simply a statement of fact that obesity is a choice, how on earth could it be otherwise?

    The evidence may show that the population largely lack the willpower to choose otherwise, and if we want we may accept this as a fait accompli and develop policies with this in mind.

    But there's nothing scientific about pretending that the choice never existed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭Jizique


    Bad actors profiting? Ever heard about the pharma industry? Remember covid? Novo and Lilly the new poster boys



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,016 ✭✭✭Jizique


    There is alot to be said for returning Miss World and Miss Universe contests to the screen - kids need role models that they can aspire to, and there is nothing wrong with people admiring beautiful women. Kids spend all their time on social media anyway looking at pics and videos of their fave stars so just put it back on telly for all of us to enjoy



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,133 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    So a silver lining then with that last sentence



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭marilynrr


    I do actually think there's a lot of truth in it.

    I think many people who become obese become obese because they're eating too much and there's no point in lying about that.

    However I do believe that once someone is obese that it very much can be a disease, and that it can be almost irreversible and the weight set point can be ridiculously stubborn.

    So the message really needs to be to try to avoid getting very overweight or obese in the first place because it might not be as simple as losing weight then, you may never be able get back to a healthy weight again.

    I've never been overweight and have always been on the lower end of a healthy low BMI with a ridiculously rigid weight set point. I would drop to underweight sometimes when stressed but then bounce back to my same set point, and I would eat a high calorie diet and never gain.

    The only time I gained was when my cortisol was out of control. I was at the higher end of a healthy BMI but by that point I was eating very very little, tiny snacks here and there because I felt like no matter what I was eating my body was suffering from inflammation. I'd been on all sorts of healthy diets to try to sort out the issue (I had previously eaten whatever I wanted) and nothing worked so I lost my love of food because everything made me feel ****.

    I managed to reverse the inflammation and cortisol in the end with keto, and dirty keto at that, stayed on it for a little while after and was back to my original weight set point and now I can eat what I want again.

    I've never been the type to judge obese people but that experience really gave me some proper insight into what it can be like for people who are trying to lose weight, you really can do everything right but if there's something wrong with your body then you can keep gaining.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kaymin


    I agree mostly but Ozempic works by reducing appetite so for most an inability to lose weight without drugs comes down to a lack of willpower / self control to resist the urge to eat.

    So I don't agree that 'you really can do everything right but if there's something wrong with your body then you can keep gaining', with limited exceptions



  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭seanrambo87


    Bad actors profiting? Would that include Katherine Thomas? What is her field of expertise again?¿



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭Trampas


    You think people are fat now. Just need to look at kids nowadays. A lot more obese kids now than ever was. Vast majority of their parents are on the large size also. It’s come does to lazy cooking. Easier to throw the processed stuff into whatever you use and come bang when it beeps that cut a few things and cook it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,743 ✭✭✭Wanderer2010


    Yes it's very odd. Obesity is not a disease. You cannot catch it from being in the same room as an obese person. The only reason it was categorised as a disease was to allow doctors and pharmaceutical companies to prescribe tablets to "cure" it, surgery to control it and in the process make billions in profit from this miscategorisation. Same with the BMI, which is totally flawed and inaccurate. Back in the 80s the limits of normal and overweight on the scale were lowered in one day, meaning billions of people went to bed as a normal weight and woke up overweight! Again, to fuel profits as more patients could be officially included as being overweight and have access to a raft of dangerous diet pills and very risky.procedures like bariatrics surgery and tummy tucks.

    I'm not surprised OT was cancelled. Focusing solely on one factor, weight, was a reflection of our extreme fat phobia and bias towards obese people fuelled by society in thousands of ways plus social media. There is not one illness which only exists in obese people and tonnes of thin people die of strokes and heart disease each year but that doesn't fit the narrative of thin = healthy fat = unhealthy and the majority of people are brainwashed by the dieting industry but facts are facts and humiliating people week after week after stepping on the scales has a short shelf life. Even when OT pretended they weren't only focused on weight, their daily calorie meal limit was still 1200 to 1400 which is way too low for a significant population.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭drury..


    Processed food is the norm for lots of persons

    Not helped by the fact that processed food is 95% of supermarket shelf space



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,784 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Yes, the obesity crises can be understood by taking a walk around any supermarket. Most sections are filled with highly processed junk food with only small sections containing non processed food that everyone should be eating. F



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    I think obesity is a societal problem, that is true, but individuals clearly can make improvements by eating less and exercising. They will inevitably succeed if they do that.

    What they’re saying would be true for people who are extremely obese, but Operation Transformation definitely was helpful for people carrying a stone or two who wanted to lose a bit of weight.

    I think it was a fairly positive programme, it did promote better health, better nutrition and exercise. That said it had kind of run its course and was repetitive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭drury..


    It become normalised. People think what's on the supermarket shelves is proper food.

    Same way in the US fast food is part of many peoples regular diet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,729 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Obesity is pernicious and linked with mental illness and addiction.

    People know they shouldn't eat that extra portion or buy that packet of biscuits, but the entire economy is based on getting people to want to do things that are profitable to corporations.

    People are manipulated from the moment they wake up till bed time with powerful targetted, carefully developed marketing designed to get them to buy more of the things, to get addicted to them.

    Once an overweight person becomes an obese person their last defense mechanism, self esteem, slips away, and they lose the motivation to resist these powerful urges, instilled in them.

    They're already 'fat and ugly' so a healthy lifestyle and the benefits of that are out of reach or would require too much of a change and take too long, so they put it off, or decide to accept their life with the limitations obesity brings, and with that acceptance, they give themselves permission to stop trying to be healthy and that's a very negative downward spiral that many people never recover from.

    Will power requires motivation. It also requires support from friends and family to encourage good behaviour and discourage bad behaviour. Goals and short term targets are needed too, as well as skills and knowledge. Not everyone knows how to cook a healthy nutritious range of meals from fresh ingredients. Most people know what the really 'bad' foods are, but marketing tricks people into thinking some of the bad foods are actually healthy, and if they're quicker easier and cheaper than preparing healthy meals from scratch then it can impede even people with the best of intentions.

    Then there is depression. A depressed person stops liking themselves, and stops thinking that they have any value as a person other than the things they can do for others. When your self esteem is really low, self destructive behaviours can easily take over. Self care becomes late night snacks or a bottle of wine.

    Telling people that obesity is a disease can be good, and it can be harmful depending on the frame of mind that person is in. Are they looking for an excuse to be sick, or are they looking for something to focus on fighting against?

    If you're looking to excuse your weight then you're never going to become healthy, but maybe you can find happiness in that body the same way people with incurable disease can accept their situation and maximise their happiness.

    If you're looking to beat the disease then telling them that it's not a character flaw, that they can make changes to their lives or take medication to overcome it can be the motivation they need to beat obesity.

    If I was king for the day, I would launch a national voucher scheme. Everyone in the country gets 1000 euros a year, from birth to death. That money can only be spent on activities that promote healthy lifestyles, whether mental or physical health. With proper safeguarding, this should encourage people to be more active, engaged and remove barriers to participation in local community organisations and would have so many benefits for individuals and communities



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,441 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    But calling obesity a disease is giving people the excuse they need, it's enabling them. And when you have the country's primary obesity expert coming on the radio and refuses to ever say these people are overeating, you are only confounding the problem.

    "I don't eat too much, I have a disease".

    I know several people who are very overweight, and eat all the wrong types of food. Some are back and forth to the medical people, trying to get themselves diagnosed with underactive thyroids and the like. I often wonder are the GPs honest with them in the meetings, telling them they are simply eating too much, or are they so PC now they don't want to offend them? These same people could eat takeaways 4 or 5 nights a week. Yet its not the food, it's something else causing them to put on weight.

    I think O'Shea and others are failing these people. Lying to them isn't helping anybody. You would have to wonder what the nations waistlines are going to be like in 50 years time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭ToweringPerformance


    Buy a pair of runners and eat less sh1t food. It's not rocket science.

    People are actually stupid for giving credence to the "it's a disease" nonsense. I know of a family member who spends a fortune on gym membership but get's take out's every other day and is depressed because they can't lose weight. When someone tried to talk to her about it they are accused of fat shaming. You can't win with these folk.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Dtoffee


    What if the food we are eating includes a certain additive that creates an addiction?

    When you eat any processed food, you would struggle to understand the ingredients list and we are now looking seeing ultra processed foods becoming the norm. Does you think that the food production industry is beyond adding a tincture of some magic dust that makes a small percentage of the consumers addicted? I doubt any of us would volunteer to drink arsenic, but yet we are if we drink tea. For example https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25526572/ says exposure of adults was estimated in relation to the Benchmark Dose Lower Confidence Limit (BMDL05) as set by the Joint FAO/WHO Expert Committee on Food Additives (JECFA) that resulted in a 0.5% increase in lung cancer (3.0 μg/kg body weight (b.w.) per day) and that's before we get to the tea bags https://www.publichealth.com.ng/which-tea-bags-contain-plastic/ .

    The reality is we have no clue what we are eating anymore and the ingredients list does not have to declare a full list as items under a low percentage are often ignored….. I think we are in the middle of a chemical war with the food industry using chemicals to help sell their products and the health pharma industry pushing their solutions. I don't have any proof, but just look at all the issues that are around today compared to 50/60 years ago.

    I think the medical profession are now starting to see the obesity issue as no longer a lifestyle choice issue and treating it as an addiction. Look at how the smoking industry promoted their product for decades and denied any addictive issues along with links to cancer.

    All of this is just my opinion and not proven, its OK to have a different opinion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭marilynrr


    I don't know really know much about Ozempic, what happens when people come off it?

    They've lost weight but do they have a healthy body that's functioning well?

    Are they then able to eat a healthy amount of calories ensuring their body is working well and stay slim?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭marilynrr


    Yes it's very odd. Obesity is not a disease. You cannot catch it from being in the same room as an obese person

    There's loads of diseases that you can't catch from being in the same room as someone!

    The only reason it was categorised as a disease was to allow doctors and pharmaceutical companies to prescribe tablets to "cure" it, surgery to control it and in the process make billions in profit from this miscategorisation.

    They're not actually miscategorised. You just don't seem to know what diseases are. Lots of diseases are preventable and reversible (in some at least). Lots of heart disease can be reversible with lifestyle changes etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,009 ✭✭✭yagan


    A few years ago I was chatting with an ambulance manager in north west England and he said they had a fleet of ten bariatric ambulances based in Manchester. He told me a recent call out was for a woman who became a shut in the upstairs of her house which meant they had the fire brigade to remove her bedroom window and get a crane to light her out.

    About ten years ago I was back in my home town for a short spell and was doing a contract that required a few house calls. At one house the door opened up and they guy immediately recognised me from school but for the life of until he told me his name I had no idea who he was. He was enormous, so big and heavy he couldn't stand without leaning against something, whereas we had been on the same teams in school and he'd been a great hurler.

    I could well imagine him some day needing a bariatric ambulance.

    I was telling this story to an undertaker friend and he said they were now having to buy and keep more bigger coffins, and according to him they mostly seem to be men in their 50s and 60s.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kaymin


    According to this article:

    'Taking Ozempic reduces appetite by promoting a feeling of fullness, helping you to lose weight.

    However, discontinuing the medication can lead to a return to normal appetite levels, potentially resulting in weight gain if dietary habits are not adjusted accordingly'

    https://lifemd.com/learn/what-happens-when-you-stop-taking-ozempic

    So the solution from Dr O'Shea and all the Irish experts is to have half the population on drugs for the rest of their lives instead of, you know, adjusting dietary habits to start with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭marilynrr


    @kaymin

    Presumably and hopefully if that is going to be the approach they take with obese patients then they will put more emphasis on the risks of becoming obese in the first place (This may not be reversible on your own, you could face a lifetime of medication etc.) and they will continue to promote that people adjust their dietary habits if they are still in the overweight category.

    On a different article on the examiner discussing the same thing they said Donal O’Shea said "eat less, move more" should not be the treatment plan for people who are already obese.

    In this article it says that Researchers say less than 1 percent of people with obesity get back to a healthy body weight. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/obese-people-have-slim-chance-of-obtaining-normal-body-weight-071615#:~:text=Researchers%20say%20less%20than%201,to%20a%20healthy%20body%20weight.

    and that Researchers with the National Institute for Health Research (NIHR) in the United Kingdom used a decade’s worth of digital health records for 278,982 people — 129,194 men and 149,788 women — and concluded current methods of getting people to lose weight aren’t working.

    Surely many of those people are going to face a lifetime or decades of medication as it is, that is if they live that long.

    Presumably some of the people who go on Ozempic do manage to keep the weight off when they come off the drug if the body is healthy afterwards (as I said I don't know much about it) so they won't all be on it for life, but the alternative seems to be that pretty much all obese people are going to stay obese, because as they said they current methods aren't working.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kaymin


    Something doesn't add up with some of the stats in that article, e.g.

    'A third of all patients had fluctuating weight, signifying many battles were lost and won before any kind of victory could be achieved.'

    Yet:

    'Losing 5 percent of their weight was successful for about 10 percent of women and 1 in 12 men.'

    You would hope the medical professional would emphasise the risks of becoming obese in the first place but instead they emphasise that it's outside of people's control leaving little incentive for people to watch what they eat or how much they exercise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭marilynrr


    I think that means that a 3rd of them had many battles of fluctuating weight before they managed to reach the 5% weight decrease target….and that 10% of women and 1 in 12 men reached the target of losing 5%……but then it also says that 53% had regained it all in 2 years and 78% regained it in 5…

    So basically only 22% of that 10% of women and 1 in 12 men who had lost 5% of their body weight managed to keep it off after 5 years…….so that's around 2% so the stats add up….presumably losing 5% also wouldn't take some of them from obese to just overweight anyway. They remain obese which is why the figure is less than 1%

    Yes they really need to think very carefully about the message that they are sending out and emphasise that it is absolutely an avoidable disease……before you actually become obese.

    I also think they need to emphasise that just because you have obesity and can't lose weight then there are still a lot of benefits to eating a healthy diet. Choosing the wrong foods and excessive amounts of food is going to make everything worse, weight, mobility, overall health.



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