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More than 2 people applying for a mortgage

  • 18-05-2024 9:18am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    I've tried googling and this seems possible but I can't find too much information on this.

    So my daughter is looking to buy a house but can't at the moment as house prices are so high. A group of friends have said that they'd like to go in together to apply for a mortgage. There's 4 of them and from searching, it looks like the limit is 4.

    Now, I'm not looking for advice on whether this would be a good idea or bad idea, I'd just like to know if anyone has any experience of this or knows how to get more information on it? I know most lenders won't allow more than 2 applicants but are there some that do?

    If solid agreements are put in place, it could be an option for my daughter to get on the 'property ladder'.



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,951 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    The issue here is how any of them exit the deal if they want to

    The other fact is the the bank will most lightly want joint and several g/tees so you daughter is exposed for the 100% loan for 25 of the asset.

    Since the polygamy referendum didn't pass, it can never be a family home so bank can foreclose

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Thanks for the reply. Yes, those sort of issues would all have to be ironed out. But before all that, would it be possible? What lenders can be contacted in relation to this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,520 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    These situations rarely go well. When ppl start to get paired off with significant others the whole game changes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭JVince


    Highly unlikely for a main home mortgage.

    Some would look at it for investment mortgage - but you need 30% deposit and you pay higher rates.

    And it this "must get on the property ladder" that causes huge issues in future if prices drop.

    Patience and 2-3 years of hard saving is the only real option.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,975 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    sounds like a disaster waiting to happen


    I assume that the 4 of them are single. What happens if 1 gets a partner and moves them in, or wants to move out, but a place with their partner.

    Who gets the bigger room?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Sorry, this is the kind of thing I want to avoid. Whether it's a good idea or bad idea is irrelevant if it's not even possible.

    Does anyone have knowledge of whether any lenders would be open to this? From looking it up, it seems like it was done pre the crash in the 2000's. Anyone have any recent experience?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Thanks for the reply. Yeah, patience could be key but there's always the thought that house prices might never go down but just stagnate or slowly increase.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 62 ✭✭PSFarrell


    Seen a few cases of siblings buying together and then one finds a partner and can't buy the other out leading to them falling out.... Can't see such an arrangement with ftiends working unless they bought a property to subdivide it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 904 ✭✭✭SupaCat95


    This agreement is great on paper until you realise that there are humans involved. Then partners get moved in. You always get a tight wad who is slow with bills and eats everyone elses food. There is the guy who jas girls around every weekend. Then there is the exit strategy where everyone gets screwed.

    If your daughter wants to keep her friends come up with a better strategy.





  • I don't know where your daughter is based, but she's better off managing her expectations in terms of where and what she buys rather than basically buying a house-share with 3 of her friends.

    For example, the cheapest 2 bed house in my town is 250k. Expand that to a 20km radius and it drops by 20%.

    If your daughter is looking to buy in Dublin then she needs to look elsewhere. Simple as.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭JVince


    no-one knows. In 2007 most said prices would go up and we all know what happened.

    In real terms prices are still much lower than the 2007 peak.

    Wages are increasing and interest rates are about to start falling a little - though in fairness to Irish banks (never thought I say that), they have not increased rates much and therefore rates will not fall dramatically. Probably safe to assume 3%-3.5% long them rates. In money terms €450 per €100,000 borrowed over 30 years.

    Back in the early 90's my mortgage for a bog standard 3 bed semi in Ballinteer was just over £700 on a 90% mortgage (about €900) and a really good salary was £25,000 with high rate tax starting at under £15,000, the net salary was just over £17,000. That house sells at €600k today. If I took the same mortgage out at today's rates it would cost €2500 a month. The 25k salary is circa 100k today (65k after tax).

    So in the early 90's about 55% of net salary was going to the mortgage (I rented two of the rooms out)

    If I were to buy the same house today and had same job and same level, the mortgage payments would be 45% of the net salary.

    So in a way, house ownership costs are similar to the early 90's



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I remember working in a mortgage arrears support unit at the height of the recession. We were getting calls all of the time from distressed parents saying their credit history has gone to crap after getting mortgages for their kids who decided not to bother paying anymore. It never ends well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 747 ✭✭✭Mr Disco


    Odd attitude.

    Show me how to drive my car off a cliff but don’t tell me driving off a cliff is a bad thing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,571 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    Yeah banks could do this if they wanted, why couldn't they? That's the answer to the question you asked.

    But like every mortgage application, it will be taken on its own merits and will likely be a no.

    Way too messy for banks they'll foresee problems down the line, just like posters here have, and you have, since you expected these concerns in your OP.

    Why does your daughter need 3 friends to go in with her? Could she not try it with just 1 friend? Incomes must be low or trying to buy in a very expensive area if they need 4.

    How will 4 people ever be on the same stage of life for long enough for this to make sense or build any equity?

    Will there be buyouts in the future? What's the exit strategy. If one wants out will the banks transfer property to the remaining 3? Where will the money come from to buy out equity if someone leaves? Would the house be put up for sale in this case? Where do they all go from there?

    These are the questions that the bank will need to be satisfied are answered, and I don't think there are any satisfactory answers they could give.

    I think it would be reckless of the bank to say yes to it to be honest



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    I started this thread in May. Just to let you know, my daughter and 2 friends decided to go for it, they've got approval in principle and are currently the leading bidders on a great property that would work perfectly for them. So I answered my own question. This definitely is possible and despite the naysayers, my daughter and her friends are so excited.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 361 ✭✭RurtBeynolds


    Objectively terrible idea. There is zero chance that it won't end badly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭drury..


    How the hell does that situation work when the relationship between the parties evolves and partners are on the scene



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    You don't know the circumstances or the property involved or the agreement reached. All possibilities have been taken into account. My daughter and her friends are smart cookies. 😀



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Think a little. Do you just have a 3 bed house on your mind?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,093 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    Banks will consider lending, but 3+ borrowers is a massive red flag. It's basically a bunch of people who cannot afford it

    (1) if things go bad (interest rates go up, etc) none of them as individuals will have a sufficiently large interest in resolving the situation.

    (2) the situation is designed to degrade; i.e. eventually people will want to leave, from other households, sell up.

    It's not about policy, it's about risk.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 747 ✭✭✭Mr Disco


    not smart enough to have decently paid employment to fund one’s own borrowing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭drury..


    Theres no good reason to do this

    If you have the funds you go solo . If not you're getting into a potential mess



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,383 ✭✭✭halkar


    Reached agreements doesn't matter. People change, circumstances change. I have seen many took out mortgages with their partners and ended up in tears homeless.

    Also it's a huge risk for bank. There is no mortgage alteration and there will be potentially 3 remortgaging here which is time consuming and expensive. Can they not rent together?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 572 ✭✭✭Q&A


    I appreciate your question was to do with could rather than should but for daughter and friends experiences might prove useful for others thinking about doing something similar.

    Out of curiosity did your daughter and friends discuss how they would amicably go their separate ways? What kind of agreement or plan is in place? Is it formal/informal?

    Is the property they're interested in easily convertible to 2/3 separate units?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Approvals in principle mean nothing in most Financial institutions. They start to dig into the applicants at sale agreed stage so don't go celebrating just yet.

    As for your comments on naysayers and your kids being smart, it means nothing in the world of Financial advice. You should be giving them advice on the pitfalls and warning them of the consequences.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    They're flying it but house prices were mental in the area they wanted. They've found a way and are delighted you'll be glad to know. 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Waste of money. Paying someone else's mortgage. This is not just one house. As I said, they are smart cookies and if all 3 of them fall out for whatever reason, they are covered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    They have reached an agreement that will work whether it's amicable or not. And yes to your last question.

    Just for anyone reading this in the future that's thinking of this. There are properties out there to suit your needs, if you're smart enough you can make it work and the banks will talk to you. You'll probably get naysayers but go for it and have a detailed plan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Oh I have warned them and it's getting very close to celebration time. They have had a number of meetings with their chosen bank and have provided all the evidence required. It's close to over the line. 🥂



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,987 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    I really hope it works out for them. I'm in my late 40s and knew a LOT of my friends/associates/ workmates that did this back between 2000-2007. Something always went wrong, unfortunately. But I wish them the best.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,571 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    See I don't agree they're smart cookies at all. I think this is very dumb to be honest. They may have found a way to get mortgage approval but they'll lose any benefits now and in the future for first time buyers. Doesn't make them smart.

    I could easily find a way to borrow money from banks for anything I want really doesn't make it smart to do so.

    I assume they're banking on house prices continuing to rise and gaining equity, this is not guaranteed and it's very like the old 'get on the ladder' ideals from years ago. Expensive areas are likely to have higher fall too.

    I very much doubt they have reached an agreement that will work in practice when the time comes unless they are all in a position and desire to sell the house and buy their own at the exact same time. No matter how much they think they'll agree now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭drury..


    Just dont tell anyone the secret or well all be doing it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    When I hear something like "smart cookies", it sets off all sorts of alarm bells. A mortgage is a legally binding contract, and it should be taken extremely seriously. Indeed, the word literally means "death pledge".

    Personally, I would not enter into a mortgage with three friends. Maybe your daughter does have all of this figured out, but as may be adduced by the reactions above in this thread, many other seem to believe it to be a bad idea.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Has it occurred to you that maybe you're just not smart enough to figure out how this will work?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Musicrules




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Honestly, I don't plan to give the details away as it is really, really smart. They explained it to me and there's no way I would have come up with this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Oh yeah, I was well aware that people were going to try to drag this down. It is boards.ie. 😁 I just wasn't sure if it was possible and I had huge doubts about the idea but these 3 have put huge amount of research into this and they have all angles covered. I'm so happy for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭drury..




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    By "dragging it down", do you mean people are offering reasons as to why you should be cautious?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    😂 What's wrong? You're disappointed this has worked out brilliantly for my daughter?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,681 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    What's the issue with telling us all the details as to how this really really smart plan works?

    Sounds like you're having us all on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    No, I mean people hoping that this wouldn't work and raging that it is. 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    I've given plenty of hints to it. Their plan is 90% there, don't want to jinx it. 👍️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    If that's how you wish to see it, then so be it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,681 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    I had a read back through your posts and there are no hits beyond four people going in on a mortgage together.

    Honestly I've seen some lovely huge properties where I've thought 'hmmm if myself and a couple of mates combined out resources we could live in a mansion'. Was always just a 'what if' though, I'm definitely best left to my own house. Would probably end up burning the place down and killing everyone after a few years haha.

    Well, once the deal is done, can you report back and tell us how it all worked? I'm more just intrigued really! Never thought a bank would go for this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4 ballygiblets


    Sounds like a good idea if they decide to pay the mortgage off aggressively such as each contributing €800-1000 per month if mortgage provider will allow it. This would mean they would be done with it from a financial burden relatively quickly and then they can look at how they exit the agreement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,571 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    But it hasn't worked, and won't know if it will work until one of them changes their mind.

    I was smart enough to buy a house on my own in 2010, can't imagine my circle of friends having a financial interest in it or having to buy them out or move out myself. Or living with them. Life changed for me very shortly afterwards and I was free to make all my own decisions then.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    They were thinking of 4 but it's 3 now when they got into the nitty gritty. The clue was that it's not just 1 house. Instead of thinking it's 3 people splitting one house, let your imaginations run to see what possibilities there could be. Honestly, I will give more details when it's 100% done, I think more people should go down this route but there is a limit on what's available to copy what my daughter and her friends are doing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,007 ✭✭✭Trampas


    Even a non married couple doing this brings up a lot of issues like above. Never mind if no kids involved but four friends is a receipt for disaster eventually



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,571 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    Nobody is raging or envious or anything I don't think anyone wants to share their biggest life choice with friends that are all going to move on in all probability. It's a bad bad idea and the bank saying yes doesn't change that



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