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Gardai Inefficiencies

  • 01-05-2024 2:47pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 6


    Just curious, are the Gardai so bad in Ireland because of the diabolically inefficient systems they use?

    Examples:

    I went to station to get garda to witness passport app form for son. He spent 20 minutes transcribing details from the form I had into a paper ledger! Yes, paper, not computer. There was no computer to be seen at the front desk.

    It seems there are only 100 police cars in the whole country with reg plate recognition for real-time alert of insurance/tax/license issues. In Australia every highway patrol and many other police cars have this system.

    Article in the news the other day saying 1000 gardai could be released from desk duty to work the streets. Why are they even at desks? Probably doing data entry that should be automated anyway.

    Individual cops are great but their hands are tied by their senior managers that decide processes and it’s them that need to be expelled.

    Post edited by Shield on
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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,481 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    So you went to a garda station to witness a passport application form for your son, but you blame AGS for their inefficient systems?

    The whole fact this role was foisted on AGS in the first place is inefficient. Did the Garda know your child? (Passport office say they must).

    100 ANPR cars in Ireland is much higher than I expected, given (a) we are so much smaller than Australia and (b) only Roads policing vehicles need them in the first place, there is one RPU in each division, and there are only 19 divisions. Thats 5 ANPR cars per division! (As well as Fixed ANPR).

    Desk duty? Your assumption is incorrect. Data entry is done by civil servants mostly, and is centralised.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,317 ✭✭✭markpb


    It can be simultaneously true that they shouldn’t be witnessing passport forms and that they’re doing it in an inefficient way. If they have a role, they should have the tools to fulfil that role in a timely manner.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,481 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    It can also be "simultaneously true" that the agency they are carrying out the service for should either provide them with the proper tools to do the job(the book is the Passports office rule, not AGS) or not force gardai to witness this document at all. It's not done by police in the UK, or any other country I'm aware of.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,602 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Only 13,390 Gardai, according to their own website.

    For a country of its size and with a population of what about 5.3 million people as of CSO figures for 2023.

    Jokeshop stuff…

    It’s difficult to be efficient and effective when you’re trying to plug a 7 foot hole in a dam with your finger.

    Probably why the Garda in the city didn’t want to take a complaint about my nicked phone… because realistically it was so down the list of priorities….that they knew there was SFA they could do and once logged as a crime it goes against their stats.

    Organisations become inefficient when they don’t have the tools to do their jobs, and or the quality of leadership.



  • Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭purifol0


    Gonna disagree with you there, lock up recidivist criminals and suddenly there'd almost be too many Gards!

    Think I'm bring hyperbolic?

    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/herald/serial-thief-stole-vodka-and-chocolate-by-guzzling-them-in-shop/31119607.html

    200th Conviction nearly ten years ago. I wonder how many now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    ha ha you ve only noticed this now ?

    i ll list a few of the issues ,

    AGS do jobs that they shouldn't, passports are the tip , about a third of the time is dealing with mental health issues , county council jobs like blocked roads running dogs , immigration most countries have a separate organization for that, courts collection agents, not to mention refereeing every pissy civil issue , the default setting in Ireland has always been sure call the gardai they well sort it out

    incessant recording and re recording of information, pulse ims pems rsa tusla hse dpp gsoc etc etc etc

    rampant political interference in policing local and nationally , do you really think helen has a clue what she is doing or is she just parroting what she is told be first leo then simon

    an open naked hatred from drew harris of front line gardai and visa versa . moral is is the sh1tter and has been for about 5 or 6 years , access to easier and better jobs with more money and less stress . i ve been introduced to drew twice neither time he so much as offered an hand shake or acknowledgment of any kind , he has the manners of a dog but many many upper level managers do also

    awful equipment and cars (electric patrol cars ffs) oppressive strangling choking oversight (now to include strapping a cctv camara onto everyone) zealous persecution by ambitious grubbers who want to be seen to step on a few heads on the way up.

    poor numbers has the front line operating at the bare min all the time and holes covered over buy over time further exhausting those same people. 100 plus hours over time per month would not be unusual but i ve heard of people at 180 plus. and looking into a summer of violence and vitriol at protest's and public unrest with compulsory over time like next week for the football. no access to leave or time off unless out sick

    sorry your pass post took so long, that is because the pass port office contact garda stations multiple times 10 to 15 a day to check the records kept there , if the numbers or names dont match t gets pulled and sent back



  • Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭purifol0


    Well well what a load of lies! easier to access better paying jobs eh - well since the average gard is on 1500 a week, what better paying jobs do the Gardai have to go to? More GRA lies methinks.

    As for Drews hatred of the front line staff - are these the same gardai that fought against the drug tests they carry out on the rest of us?

    Here's a thought, if gardai werent paid the most out of the entire public sector, maybe more money could be spent on equipment instead!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    1500 hundred a week ? 6 grand a month ha haha 😂🤣🤣 good lad,

    top of the wage scale after 20 years puts ya just over 700 a week .

    Insurance companies , state bodies ,corporate private security not to mention nsw and westren oz . fire and prison service .

    no one fought against random drug testing ya plonker ,it supported by gra and most honest gardai and still hasn't started

    you havent a clue and just sprout bile and hatred coz its all some people can do , i forgot to ad having to deal with your sort of childish and uninformed crap



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,578 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    1500 per week is correct for Gardai average.

    It is of course skewed upwards by senior staff, the same applies to the other categories also.



  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭joeymcg


    You are clearly clueless. If guards were being paid 1500 a week why would the resignation be at the highest the organisation has seen its 101? year history? Who would resign from a job/vocation on that remuneration?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    https://www.garda.ie/en/careers/career-opportunities-for-an-garda-siochana/garda-pay-scales-october-2023.pdf

    as a example

    even inspectors who often do the of barristers presenting cases in the district court, attend local political meetings JPC business case meetings with share holders as well as managing district numbers and resources reading vetting and directing on criminal files major event planning dont make what you claim , and they are not the average garda

    you clearly haven't got a clue what you on about , properly one of those fools who thing gardai get dree health car and mortgages 😂😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭purifol0


    You haven't mentioned overtime and additional payments, the figures of 1500 euro a week are both official and accurate.

    Also they get extremely early retirement and a massive lump sum.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,356 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    It always comes down to the same thing - money. Ireland is one of the low spenders when it comes to expenditure on public order and safety, you want a better service then spending needs to increase, so taxes need to go up….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    you understand that overtime and shift allowances are not a concept unique to AGS neither do they bring anyone's weekly wage to 1500 , and that as i already pointed out shortages are filled by the same people working extra hours, some times in crazy numbers. they should do this for free ?

    30 years min now 35 years leaving some working front line roles 24 hour service until 60 plus.

    your information re pensions and gratuity is about 10 years out of date . new entrants get some where between 7 and 9 grand a year after 30 years of state service. in and increasingly difficult and dangerous job with a near 100 percent change of getting assault and strong likely hood of getting hurt

    how much do you think its worth given that the state invest less than one percent of gdp in keeping its people safe



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,056 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    1500 euro a week? Are you actually feeling ok? Sure noone would ever leave if they got paid that. Ridiculous

    The Garda commissioner gets paid 295,618.00 euro a year. 2 Deputy commissioners get 190,021.00 euro a year

    8 Assistant commissioners get 167,745.00 euro a year.

    47 Chief superintendents get 127,260.00

    I won't go any further...but you might see how an average figure could be skewed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,481 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Do you understand what the word "Average" means?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 355 ✭✭delboythedub


    Gardai who are Nearly approaching retirement age should be the Garda behind the desk. Then you get to keep the very Experienced Garda where he is needed and then you would have the younger guys out on the beat . This might do away with the "we have'nt got the manpower syndrome". End



  • Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭purifol0


    Lol. I've asked for proof of all these gardai leaving and...nothing.

    Also you are exceptionally bad and both math and propaganda. Gardai often double and sometimes triple their base pay via overtime. Which was actually the main reason Drew Harris was hired, to bring down the gardai pay bill.

    And as there are no staff, senior or otherwise on standard salaries of millions, that means the average pay is relevant. Plus all those senior staff - they are also gardai are they not? With the exception of Drew all of them rose through the ranks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,056 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    The Garda Commissioner, the one deputy commissioner and a number of assistant Commissioners did not rise through the ranks, as none were gardai before their current position. Also, a number of chief superintendents were not gardai either.

    here is just a few press articles about the retention crisis. Can't believe you haven't heard all about it.........

    https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/irish-daily-mail/20221021/281595244454560

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/over-500-members-left-an-garda-siochana-last-year-highest-number-in-five-years/a541006947.html

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/1022/1412228-gra-garda-resignations/

    https://www.thejournal.ie/garda-recruitment-problems-resignations-trainees-5921165-Nov2022/



  • Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭purifol0


    Ah yes th rentention crisis - Gardai resigning in record numbers as soon as they got a commissioner that prosecutes the corrupt ones.

    Not only that, but I'd loooove a gender breakdown of these resignees. After all Harris and McEntee have made a big deal of discriminating against men in garda hiring, meaning the traditonal >90% male AGS is now down to 60% is just a few years. Remarkable what a bit of "positive" discrimination can do eh.

    Lastly there is about 5000 applicants for every garda position. If some of the current lot cant handle it, plenty more will.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,056 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    Nnothing to do with a 'commissioner who prosecutes the corrupt ones ' gardai have always been prosecuted. Drews 'new unit ' has only one case before the courts, but plenty of gardai are still prosecuted by other garda units.

    What does a gender breakdown have to do with anything?



  • Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭csirl


    Is AGS carrying poor performers? A small number can make the job very difficult for everyone else?

    I get the impression that the poor performers are carried rather than performance managed or exited.



  • Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭purifol0


    Because the retention crisis happened after they began discriminating against hiring men



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,481 ✭✭✭Dohvolle




  • Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭purifol0


    Fantastic rebuttal.

    While I have you, would you like to comdemn McEntee and Harris for discrimination based on gender in hiring?

    "I want to particularly encourage women to consider a career with the Gardai. Significant efforts have been made to increase the proportion of women in the service" - Helen McEntee 10 Feb 2022

    2 years later:

    "It is particularly positive that the number of women applying to join An Garda Síochána remains high and the total percentage of female Gardaí stands at over 28%, which I am advised is above the European average. Work is ongoing to encourage and support a range of diversity across the whole Garda workforce."

    Helen McEntee - 22 February 2024

    Meritocracy is long gone in the public sector. Illegal discrimination is now well under way



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,056 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    Or perhaps the retention crisis happened after they changed the terms and conditions for new recruits, and the pension benefits.........nothing to do with gender



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,056 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    A actively encouraging is not discrimination🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭purifol0


    The terms and conditions for new recruits….they increased their pay. And also the gardai had several pay rises outside of their contract (yet more public sector pay deals), thus increasing their overall pay and increasing their future pension amounts too.

    " the changes I made last year […] boosting the training allowance by 66% to €305 per week. " - H McEntee

    So are you are lying or ignorant, because they're now on more not less.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,056 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    😂😂 more than what?

    The terms and conditions are not nearly as favourable as they were 15 years ago, not to mention their pensions are terrible.

    Why would they be leaving in their droves every year if it was better! 😂😂



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,481 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Listen kid,

    you can blab away all you like, and quote all you want, as you have nothing better to do at 9pm of a Saturday evening.

    Equal opportunities is not discrimination. AGS had to go a long way to make the job tryly equal. When I served female gardai had a different numbering system than males. This meant that for all official correspondence, without reading the name, the reader knew "this came from a woman". The culture then was that women were needed "to make tea and look after lost children". The title "B/gda" was removed from use during my service. It was not uncommon for a member of the public to come into the public office with a problem, meet the Female Garda behind the counter, and demand to speak to a "Proper Garda".

    The highest ranking female garda at the time was an inspector. The Glass ceiling was real. There were no female Gardai in Traffic units because few would have been sent on driving courses. I was in Templemore when the first female Garda Motorcyclist was trained.

    There was even a pay claim made by civil servants on discrimination grounds, who were working alongside garda clerks, who were inevitably female, and thus denied most of the allowances that a male garda would earn.

    I'm trying to decide though.

    Where did the minister hurt you? Was it her or do you just hate all women?

    But until you walk the walk in the shoes of a Garda you can't speak for what you perceive as were it all went wrong.

    So, when did you serve?



This discussion has been closed.
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