Buying cattle privately

Kovu wrote: »

There's no set time per se but a few days without reasonable excuse I'd expect- you could have transport issues, animal lamed itself, sickness etc etc and that would get priority over moving the animals.

Sold animals private last year and the buyer forgot to move one into his herd on agfood. Never noticed until a fortnight later!

isnt a permit normally valid for 28 days- as long as there are no tb tests due- and must be posted within 7 days of movement

nellyg wrote: »

Quick question. What is the time allowed between when the animals are transferred into your herd number and when the animals are actually brought onto your farm?

Same day and it is illegal not to do so. You should never accept a transfer (on Agfood) or sign a transfer movement unless the animals are in your possession/physically in your yard.
**Clarification: you purchase an animal privately and shake hands on the deal. Ye both exchange name, address and herd numbers.
Scenario 1 - both of you are registered on Afood.ie. Seller goes to the relevant section on Agfood and completes the movement. The movement is allowed - "A" status. Seller decides to deliver the animal to you cause they are a nice person. Seller phones you in advance of leaving the yard to let you know that they are on the way. Seller arrives into your yard with the animal and unloads it. You are happy, seller is happy, you pay for the animal and seller advises you of the Compliance Certificate Number. Seller leaves after a cuppa of tae, you log onto Agfood, quote the Compliance Cert Number and accept the movement - job done.
Scenario 2 - neither of you are registered on Agfood or only one of you is. Simular format but the seller has to either print off the Compliance Cert if they are registered on Agfood or apply for one in the post. Seller shows you 3 copies of Compliance Cert - one for you, one for the seller and the third is the Notification Copy to be forwarded to CMMS (Dept of Agri). You complete, date and sign the Compliance Cert. The responsibility of informing the Dept of Agri is on the purchaser (you) so you have to ensure that it is posted within 7 days of the animals arriving on your farm.
Irrespective of which method that is used animals cannot move from one herd to another herd unless accompanied with the proper Compliance Cert.
Selling animals to slaughter, export facilities, marts or the dead lorry don't follow the same rules as these facilities can accept animals without pre notification of movements. TB restricted herds can only sell to slaughter facilities or specific DAFM Approved feedlots.

Donegalforever wrote: »

What is the current situation about buying cattled privately?
Are there any restrictions?

You can get as close as you like to the cattle but not within 6 foot of the seller and definitely no shaking on the deal. Maybe nod appreciatively at each other.

I was told by a senior regional Vet that it's up to each herdowner to ensure that their blue book/online register is correct at all times vis a vie the cattle in their herd.

I do the same. I always check on Agfood a week or so later that any cattle we sold privately have been moved out be it manual or online movement.

What age is the bull? Would he need to be tested now to move him. The buyer mustn't have had a test either if they didn't notice he wasnt on the system

If over 3 years different rules apply

The onus on the seller is to get a valid movement cert and the onus is on the buyer to accept the animal into his herd, can’t create another movement cert after the animal wasn’t tested in his herd, will get a discrepancy letter about the animal not being on the TB test.

Dealer bought calves outta the yard in 2022. Herd test spring 23 I had a couple of animals extra on profile. Tbh couldn't remember where they went and I had no record of them. Had to report them stolen to get then off the profile..spring 24 , dealer send me a picture of the cards. Said yer man was a devil for not posting stuff and doesn't like having too much stock cause of nitrates. He obviously hid them from his own herd test. Because they were still in my herd it was my problem. Girl in dept laughed and said she never found cattle reported missing before.

The problem there is you are still relying on the purchaser to still accept the animal into his/herd herd

Probably the handiest way if you have been stung this way is hold onto the card until the movement is fully done. Going forward it so easy to do it for both sides either on agfood or the herd apps.

When buying calves here, it's load them into the trailer, create the app in the trailer and accept it before leaving the yard. It's fair on both sides

For the op, when it's sorted I wouldnt be surprised if the purchaser got and inspection in the coming months. It happened here about 15 years ago, forgot to send on the cert. Once both sides are clear and transparent on what happened if it's the buyer forgetting to send on the movement cert DAFM are ok.

Mistakes happen once in a bull moon with paper. Being forthcoming about resolving it will garnish you favour

You were going to have a backward TB trace once the animal failed a test or show lesions one way or another. Should have moved into the dealers herd when you load the animals and stopped him jumping the cattle into another man’s herd off your permit.

The online movement system is flawed. You shouldn't be punished if someone else forgets to do something. I always keep a close eye on my profile online to make sure they are gone out of my herd.

Why doesn't the system contact the seller automatically if the buyer forgets to accept them?