Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Why dont more people use mopeds/scooters?

1246

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,970 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Sounds like a great idea, sure we could have a fleet of Canta's in the poor/limited and narrow cycle paths we have dotted around the place:



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,936 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Again, as I mentioned earlier, could easily be avoided with weight and dimension requirements.

    After all, there is nothing stopping you building something like the above today, but with pedals and an electric motor!

    In fact these legal ebikes look like they take up even more space then the above:



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,970 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    You just have to look at how the post bike in the last pic barely fits into the narrow cycle lane.

    I know you mean well and all but the cycle infra we have here is far too inadequate to start introducing these Electric vehicles onto them, no matter how low powered they are..



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,936 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    But that is my point, the above pictures are all of perfectly legal ebikes, which can legally be brought in cycle paths.

    The point is throttle versus pedal doesn't make a difference, weight, speed and dimensions are what make the difference as we see from the above legal ebikes.

    Some more legal ebikes:



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,936 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    BTW you might enjoy this. This car is parked in the Griffith Avenue cycle lane:

    The broken white lines are the cycle path and he is directly parked over the bike symbol!

    I didn't see him drive in the cycle path (though I once saw a Porsche do it), but he was very dangerously parked at that corner!

    Also I've seen those An Post Cargo bikes use the Griffith Avenue cycle lane, which is one way and often narrow, so much worse then the above picture on a tow way cycle lane. Not that I've a manager problem with it (I've a problem with them building a one way cycle lane rather then two on Griffith Avenue).



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,087 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    I agree the throttle rule is stupid - a lot of eBikes come with a "walk assist" feature that's technically illegal as it's a "throttle". My wife has an eBike and if she has to stop on a hill, finds it difficult to get restarted, a throttle would be useful in those circumstances, but it's not allowed. Similarly the ban on seats on eScooters - why? Why is it ok to sit on an eBike but not on an eScooter? It should just be limit on speed, power and weight.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,039 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    is that at the bottom of ballymun road?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,744 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    For what its worth OP, I have two motorcycles (not Scooters/Mopeds obviously)
    I used neither for commuting because:

    1: Bike will get stolen if left on the street
    2a: Again you get all you gear on, get the bike out of the shed, drive into town, park the bike and get changed in work clothes it's nearly as fast to use the DART/Luas
    2b: Poor traffic management, road design means it's getting more and more difficult to filter, hence using two wheels is not as fast it should be.
    3: Irish people in general are crap drivers (I've driven all over Europe and Irish and Italian are by the far the worst), you're gonna get knocked off.

    All in all DCC have done a very poor job with traffic management and road design. They've made them narrower to accommodate cycle lanes (which is fine, I suppose) but it means the most efficient mode of transport (by far) has to take a back seat.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,936 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Yep, Google Maps doesn't show the new cycle path at this location, but he was parked between the two pedestrian crossings at this corner:

    https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3785813,-6.2653157,3a,37.5y,44.79h,81.8t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1shwNaIUBN-70HYdKB9A7WZg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DhwNaIUBN-70HYdKB9A7WZg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D44.7867777625752%26pitch%3D8.197380275494908%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,936 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I'm not sure about Ireland, but in the UK walk assist throttle is legal up to 6km/h. But yes, I agree, I really don't see what the difference is between an ebike doing 25km/h via pedalling, versus the exact same bike doing 25km/h via a button!

    And sure escooters are basically a throttle too, I know you "kick off", but then they do all the rest themselves.

    Maybe a work around for ebikes is to optionally copy an escooter, one revolution of the pedals to get going and then you don't need to peddle any more (but cut out above 25km/h).

    It is all rather silly IMO.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,970 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    The difference is that with a throttle it makes a bike/cargo bike/offroad bike into a moped or electrically propelled vehicle so therefore laws that apply to unassisted vehicles apply to them.

    When a bicycle has a motor attached to it for the purposes of propulsion then it ceases to become a mere bicycle.

    Could be a chance to campaign with politicians to change this law?



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,936 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Yes, that is exactly what we are saying, the law makes no logical sense and should be changed. There is no safety difference between an ebike that you pedal at 25km/h and the same ebike that goes at 25km/h by pressing a button (or one revolution of the pedals).

    All this rule does it limit disabled, elderly, etc. access to ebikes which can be a great way for them to gain a level of independence.

    They are currently discussing changing this rule in the UK to allow throttle on all ebikes (optionally). If that passes, I'd expect there to be pressure to also change the EU regulations to allow for it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,970 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Not sure how comfortable most pedal cyclists would be with a bike that could twist a throttle and zip up to 25kph fairly quickly without a pedal stroke, things are bad enough with the amount of Chinese motor/hub kit 50kph+ bike kits out there, which aren't enforced by the Gards anyways.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,936 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Interestingly, just reading the new legislation, there are actually two categorys of e-mopeds:

    • The first category has a max speed of 25km/h and can have a power up to 1000W, no throttle, have to pedal.
      This category, requires registration and motor tax, but not a driver license or insurance. They can be used in cycle lanes.
    • Second category has a max speed of 45km/h and can have a power of up to 4000W and allows for throttle use.
      This category requires registration, motor tax, drivers license and insurance and can't be used in cycle lanes.

    I can see the first category above being popular with e-cargo bikes as the extra power is handy for them, while not needing insurance etc. makes it not to difficult to get.

    https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/4ea3a-new-regulations-for-e-scooters-and-e-bikes-come-into-force-next-monday/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,744 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    There's are videos on YT on how to delimit them. from what I can see it's a 5 minute job

    You need to cut a cable, job done.

    The limiters are designed to be taken off.

    Completely unregulated and with unenforceable rules



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,936 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Again, literally no different from an existing ebike. Even the ones with pedals zip up to 25kph fairly quickly. That is more based on the power limit (250W) then the throttle or not. The new legal 1000W ebikes will be more problematic from this point of view.

    All you are doing is making life harder for disabled and elderly folks, well done!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Viscount Aggro


    I was in Naples recently. There is no way cyclists could survive there.

    Two jobs that are redundant there …. makers of indicators… painters of road markings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,970 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    No, I'm not doing anything. You can attach any worthy cause to a situation and make yourself look like a white knight, however electrically propelled vehicles for people with disabilities may be another thread.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Untrained, unlicensed, uninsured people using vehicle's that can go 20 or 25km/h are indeed making life a lot more stressful for pedestrians of all ages and abilities.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,936 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    As a mostly pedestrian myself, I really don't worry about bikes, it is cars that frighten me. So much red light jumping at pedestrian crossings, I see so many drivers on their phone distracted and too much speeding.

    They might be licensed and insured, but it doesn't mean they are safe. The majority of road fatalities are caused by such motorists.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,936 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I'm not white knighting, I'm very serious, the rules don't make logical sense and are just exclusionary. You haven't given a single logical reason why the pedal rule should exist.

    That is the bit I'm struggling with, it doesn't make logical sense. There is no difference once they are both using the same power and speed rules.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 491 ✭✭gossamerfabric


    Schiebehilfe/Walk Assist is legal on pedelecs in Germany so long as it goes no faster than 6 kmph



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,833 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Groundless stress again, before e-bikes arrived you were terrified of cyclists knocking you down, now it's e-bikes when all along it's cars that are killing pedestrians.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Thanks for the gaslighting.

    I'm not terrified of anything. General I don't make a distinction between pedal-only bicycles and other two wheelers: with rapid technology change, the distinctions between types of two wheels are betting blurrier. And they're getting faster, which is a source of stress for many.

    But I do have a realistic understanding of the risks I face, and the likely consequences of being injured by an insured-driver vs an uninsured-cyclist.

    On Sunday, I had to duck behind the bus shelter to make room for the bicycle-user who continued at the same speed while he undertook a bus that was letting off passengers. I didn't have to do similar to avoid any cars. That's one specific experience, but typical other others I've had, and observed.

    There are more accidents involving cars, for sure. But that's because there are a lot more kilometers travelled by cars. The only meaningful comparisons are weighted to control for both numbers of car vs bicycle users, and distances travelled. I've not seen this anywhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,833 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Do you think cars are getting slower and lighter? No, they're getting bigger, faster, heavier and there's lots of uninsured drivers knocking about. You need to get a realistic understanding that you're much more lightly to be killed or injured by a car than by a bike or e-scooter. Now, your anecdote about cyclists cycling up between the path and the bus as passengers alighted is very dubious. We all know how close to the path buses stop. There's barely room for an ant, they're trained well to seal off the access & ensure safe passage on and off the bus. Great story though, one of many by yourself and your numerous close calls with cyclists.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Can't imagine anyone who can't manage an pedal assist bike being able to manage a throttle bike.

    I think you can make your point without fringe cases. It quite obvious to spot a bike when someone isn't pedalling. I assume that's the reason for it.

    That said it's mostly not being enforced, I can't see that changing.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,936 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Err.. plenty people can struggle to pedal constantly, in particularly up a hill, but could hold a button! In other countries without this law, these are very popular with users with limited mobility.

    Also not pedalling doesn't really tell you much, the person might be just free wheeling down a hill or incline or hell I do it myself on a non ebike on the flat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Normal bicycles themselves are popular with people with limited mobility.

    "...misperception. A Transport for London (2016) study found that 76 percent of people with disabilities could ride a bike, and approximately 15 percent sometimes used a bike to get around. Another study found that nearly-three-quarters of disabled cyclists (72 percent) used their bikes as mobility-assistive devices (Wheels for Wellbeing, 2018). Older people and those with disabilities often described cycling as easier than walking or propelling a wheelchair and viewed it as a main form of physical activity (Inckle, 2020, Wheels for Wellbeing., 2018). Furthermore, e-bikes enable older adults and people with physical or other health constraints that are not classified as a disability to engage in daily physical activity or bike more often (Johnson and Rose, 2015, Spencer et al., 2019)...."

    Freewheeling lol. That literally only goes so far and so fast. Someone maintaining 30kph for any length of time without pedalling is very obvious.

    I have no problem with the idea you might get more people out of cars if they could just use a slow eMoped. But are we really trying to get people out of cars. It feels like every mobility initiative is done with massive reluctance.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,936 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Yes and allowing a throttle would mean even a higher percentage of mobility impaired people to use bikes.

    It is also likely that even those mobility impaired people who can use bikes, could travel further on a throttle bike. There is a difference between saying I could pedal for 5 to 10 minutes, versus say an hour. Hell that can even be true for regular folks.

    My problem with all this, is no one has given me a good logical explanation as to why it shouldn't be allowed. Obviously within the other constraints of the motor cutting out at 25km/h and max 250W power, I honestly don't see what difference it would make? Exact same ebike, same max speed, same acceleration and power, but one you have to pedal and one you can press a button.

    And no one has explained to me why it is okay for escooters to continue to power you, without you needing to constantly use your foot, but it isn't okay for an ebike to do the same?

    Ironically I fell this law will simply push people to use escooters instead of better, safer, ebikes.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    What you need is to find or create stats that prove your assertion that throttle ebike are not any more dangerous.



Advertisement