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Limerick improvement projects

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭Brennans Row


    I was just looking at a picture of the railway station taken by Finbarr O’Neill on the 15.05.2024.

    What caught my eye is a building crane that must be situated on the Mallow Street / Catherine Street area?

    Does anyone know what building site this might be?

    Maybe the stalled 34-41 Catherine Street development?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,168 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Maybe something to do with one of the Georgian buildings been done up around there.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,216 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    The Catherine St development hasn't started. That looks like a mobile crane. It might have something to do with one of the building refurbs on Mallow St.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭Vanquished


    It's carrying out work on the McVerry Trust project at 2 & 3 Mallow Street. Something like 11 single bed apartments for their homeless or drug treatment clients.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭Brennans Row


    Seeing a crane on 34-41 Catherine Street was wishful thinking on my part. 🏗️

    Still 2-3 Mallow Street is an interesting project, adding a floor plus Georgian restoration.

    The Trust writes on their website . . .

    In the heart of Limerick City’s Georgian Core, our regeneration project on Mallow Street is another example of the work Peter McVerry Trust is doing to bring vacant properties back into use as social housing.

    This former OPW building will create 12 homes for people on local social housing waiting lists.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,216 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Public consultation is open for the Moyross rail station.

    Details are here.

    https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/about-us/iarnrod-eireann-projects-and-investments/new-stations/moyross

    It's to be a single platform behind Corpus Christi School.

    What are the benefits?

    Improved public transport connections for the people of Moyross,
    with approximate journey times of 11 minutes to Limerick Colbert, 15
    minutes to Sixmilebridge, 32 minutes to Ennis, and less than 2 hours to
    Galway

    Improved public transport links to educational and community facilities, including TUS, Thomond Park, and TUS Gaelic Grounds

    Supports the sustainable regeneration of Moyross and the surrounding area

    Integrates with existing and proposed transport networks, including
    the proposed University Avenue strategic link road between Moyross
    Avenue and Old Cratloe Road, BusConnects Limerick, and the proposed
    Limerick CycleConnects

    By 2043 almost 7,000 people will live within a 15 minute walk of the proposed new Moyross Station

    Encourages multiple modes of sustainable transport through the provision of bicycle parking

    Encourages more sustainable travel choices by providing an
    alternative to private car journeys, thus reducing transport related CO2
    emissions

    Designed with flexibility to accommodate the potential future
    double-tracking of the line and addition of a second platform on the
    northern side of the track at the station

    I'm actually laughing at this 'benefit'.

    By 2043 almost 7000 people will live within a 15 min walk of the proposed new Moyross Station

    A station for a population, in 20 years time, of 7000 people, who'll be less that 15 mins from a bus stop that will get them into the city center faster and more frequently than the train thanks to BusConnects.

    In fact other than links to Sixmilebridge and Ennis (how strong would demand even be for this) there is nothing provided here that BusConnects won't deliver.

    I doubt this project passed any CBA. It seems to be purely a political venture.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,168 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Didn't think they would go there but it's exactly what I was hoping for my own selfish reasons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,861 ✭✭✭Poxyshamrock


    It needs to have a passing loop and second platform. Otherwise as Cookiemunster mentions, it will not be able to compete with the existing bus services already in situ.

    Will be suggesting that a passing loop is added.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,168 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Stupid not to have the passing loop. They already made that mistake once with Sixmilebridge.

    It will never compete with the bus which is a fine service now. It will never be a station for Moyross people to get to Limerick.

    The only real daily benefit is for Clare TUS students. Outside of that a few matches and a few people going to Camillus or the new hospital is all it will be used for.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,399 ✭✭✭✭phog


    What's the purpose of a public consultation after the site is selected and planning permission sought?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,399 ✭✭✭✭phog


    There's a decent amount of students arriving in to Limerick train station every morning, they're split across UL, Mary I, TUC and the Arts college, the train station in Moyross could be handy for the TUS students, a stop near the Parkway or Ballysimon might suit UL but you'd need a connecting bus or secure bike stands as the walk from Ballysimon is borderline too long a commute.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 716 ✭✭✭LeoD


    Well if you add stations around Ballysimon, Raheen & Mungret you have an efficient & sustainable transport network connecting the outer parts of the city with each other which opens up housing and commercial development opportunities and provides greater access to jobs regardless of where you live in the metro area. You could also add stops in Corbally, Park Rd, Parkway, Ballinacurra, Dooradoyle. If you want to go to the city centre you can get a bus, cycle or drive. Not every trip starts/finishes in the city centre so we shouldn't be trying to funnel every trip through it. Add another station in Patrickswell and build more housing out there. Limerick has an opportunity to distinguish itself from other Irish cities and make it a very attractive proposition for FDI by developing a light urban rail network that connects with Shannon Airport and the intercity network.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,168 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    You would assume the new Ballysimon station will have a bus connection but nothing is certain in this country.

    The problem with Moyross compared to Colbert is where people are coming from. Moyross/TUS will only be coming from Clare and maybe Galway. Numbers compared to those coming in from Cork, Tipp and beyond would be small I would say.

    Bike space is still limited on many services too and good luck leaving your bike locked up for the week in Moyross.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,216 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Except you wont have that. You'll have lines that terminate in Colbert, in the city center, and don't actually connect with each other. So you'll be doing exactly the thing you say we shouldn't be doing. And none of the lines serve UL/Plassey/Annacotty.

    Single track lines on 18th century alignments will not match, never mind surpass, the BusConnects offering (especially when the park and rides are set up around the edge of the city) and they are not suitable commuter routes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,168 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    That's it really. Unless we grow a pair and actually start building new alignments then we will get nowhere with rail commuting except the odd time we get lucky and the town happens to be on the intercity line like Mallow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,399 ✭✭✭✭phog


    The problem with Moyross compared to Colbert is where people are coming from. Moyross/TUS will only be coming from Clare and maybe Galway. Numbers compared to those coming in from Cork, Tipp and beyond would be small I would say.

    What are you basing your numbers on, there's a significant number of students getting off trains in Limerick already, that could grow if they had an option of a station closer to their college



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 716 ✭✭✭LeoD


    There's nothing to stop it from being done if the will and vision is there but the constant negativity to do something different and ambitious coupled with the obsession with building more roads means the odds are stacked against it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,168 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    "I would say" means literally that. I'm only guessing or musing.

    The morning train from Ennis is already very busy and if getting off in Moyross makes some of their lives easier I'm all for it. But any new TUS students not using the train that may be taken in by this would need to be from Ennis or Sixmilebridge really. It's not Limerick is the problem it's the catchment area of that line.

    I want the station to be built but at the same time I'm not gonna pretend that stuff like that fantastical piece Cookiemunster posted is actually true.

    If as said earlier we actually built new lines which I think the state has never done outside Dublin you could send some Ennis trains straight to Ballysimon and the junction. You could also have the backbencher darling that is the train to Shannon which Moyross people would use for work. But none of that will happen.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,216 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Please explain how it can be done without building new alignments that don't require you to terminate in Colbert and change trains. The busiest bus route is Raheen to UL/Plassey. There is no current rail line that allows this trip.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,631 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    Well there is no will and zero vision so that's that then.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,168 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Its all about the "will" and when it comes to rail the politicians have none and will never take on the NIMBY's the way they would for a new road.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭geotrig


    Anyone know the current figures , would have thought nearly7k people lived within a 15min radius as it is now or close too it ?

    quick google suggest moyross is a lot less than it used to be !!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,168 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    1000 houses was the local story back in the day but a lot has changed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,631 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    What you are proposing is something approaching a half-assed integrate commuter rail system for Limerick Metropolitan area. The place for that to emerge was LMATS, and it's interesting that it didn't, in any shape or form. All that LMATS threw up was the same old stations for Moyross and Ballysimon.

    With no park and ride, no passing loop, no double tracking, no mention of additional services and little prospect of additional stations what will now happen is a large sum of money will be spent conveniencing a few Clare based TUS students. This money would provide a far better return and have a far greater impact on the lives of people living in the area if it were spent on prioritising the completion of the LNDR phase 1 and initiating phase 2, or moving Bus Connects forward instead of pandering to Ryan/Leddin's train fetish.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,399 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Why are you discounting the people arriving into Limerick from other incoming trains other than the Ennis Line that could hop onto the Ennis train to get to Moyross



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,216 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    It would be easier for them to walk to the nearest bus stop and get a bus that drops them closer to where they want to go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,168 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Because why would they do that ?

    The train to Ennis has far far less frequency than the new 2 or 3 buses that will connect to TUS via a much shorter walk than getting off another train at Moyross.

    The bus goes almost straight line to Hassetts Cross or TUS itself where as that train line takes a slow meandering spin around the Parkway and The Island.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,399 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Maybe but it can't be difficult to have a train on a platform waiting to depart to Ennis as soon as the morning trains to Limerick arrive in to Limerick



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,216 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    But it will leave them a kilometer from TUS rather than a few meters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,399 ✭✭✭✭phog


    If they're building the station for those trains only then it's a white elephant



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,631 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    They could of course hop on one of the 7 or 8 trains a day that will serve the route if the departure time happened to suit them.

    Alternatively they could hop on one of the 60 or so route 303 busses that would be far more likely to suit them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,399 ✭✭✭✭phog


    The bus stop most of them use at the moment is up near Johnsie's Shop and that's to town rather than the station, granted it is more frequent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,168 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    But they don't alight at TUS it's another 15 minute walk. The bus would easier and quicker.

    They already have Ennis trains waiting to meet Junction trains for Dublin to Ennis people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,399 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Obviously they don't alight at TUS, the station is in Moyross but there's a walk whichever mode of transport they use

    If it's as unfriendly as your suggesting then the station is a waste of money



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 716 ✭✭✭LeoD


    LSMATS also scrapped the LNDR and it's not part of the national development plan but here we are again advocating for it so I don't think you're overly concerned with what's in LSMATS, you just want another road built regardless.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,216 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    LSMATS did not scrap the LNDR. It's specifically stated in the document that it was removed on the instructions of Eamonn Ryan. It's still part of the Clare County Development Plan and would have been included in LSMATS without the ministers interference.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,168 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    That road should definitely get built. It's not a one or the other situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,924 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    I guess if enough people raise concerns about the project, then it won't go ahead.

    It is our money after all.

    I think the Northern Distributor Road is more valuable to Limerick city but the Greens don't like new roads. It would actually be better for Moyross than a train station.

    Likewise the Colbert Quarter and Cleeves site are better use of resources but I guess that money comes from a different pot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,631 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    Hardly scrapped. LNDR Phase 1 is under construction, albeit recklessly delayed by the failure to deal with the collapse of Roadbridge in anything approaching a timely manner, but nonetheless under construction.

    It makes little or no sense for LNDR phase 2 not to proceed, and it is entirely likely that it will at some point in the future, once the greens are out of the way.

    I am entirely supportive of LMATS in principle, as a work of considerable substance and potentially significant positive benefit to the wider community. I do find it odd and frustrating that a few of the lower impact recommendations are being cherry picked and prioritised simply because they align with a politician's fetish.

    I also support any rail based developments that play to the strengths of rail bases transport (high capacity, high frequency, high speed inter city and commuter services etc.). This does not include opening/reopening little used stations on Victorian alignments with slow and infrequent services. Especially where the sole justification is a Ministerial whim.

    I do not support road construction for its own sake. I definitely do support the construction of LNDR as a vital transport corridor, a means of removing through traffic from urban roads and streets and most importantly as a means of opening up access to and from Moyross - the main reason it was originally conceived.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,778 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I don't think it a question of the NDR or the station. Both are probably needed for an expanding city.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,924 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    Funding comes from transport budget though. It's not a limitless pot.

    Maybe the rationale is that the station will be a catalyst for Moyross rejuvenation. Nothing turns on developers more than rail infrastructure.

    But if a bus is faster and more frequent, what's the point in a train station. Buses are electric now so emissions aren't a factor.

    I like the idea of a suburban rail network for Limerick though. It's unique in Ireland for potential in that sense. There's already 3 lines in the city.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,778 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Yeah a high speed, more frequent, bus is a great idea but we have not been able to implement any such thing in the past in this city.

    The station is just that, a station, you might maybe need to re-allign the tracks but you won't need to build new ones so it will be quite cost effective from that point of view. Costs will also be recouped on rail tickets over time.

    It will be great for anybody in the area, which is nearly 3 times the population of sixmilebridge, looking to take a bus or train from Colbert. Students at TUS and on match days in Thomond Park it could take a lot of the traffic off the city streets



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,399 ✭✭✭✭phog


    The problem with the train tracks is it's on a circular route single track to the city with three level crossing & passes through residential areas so it has a reduced speed limit.

    For it to provide regular fast transport and outbound train needs to pass an incoming train otherwise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 136 ✭✭Not made with hands


    And the Gaelic grounds.

    I suppose it's a lot handier than getting into town to catch a Dublin or Galway train etc.

    Especially once the link roads are built.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,168 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    The bus from the point the station will be at is already as quick as you are going to get.

    No one has ever complained about the speed of.the Moyross bus once you are on it. It was infrequency which has been fixed and unreliability which has been good recently 🤞

    Honestly couldn't ask for better from Moyross to town. Just wish it went to UL or UHL after.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,778 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    11 minutes by bus to Colbert station? Good luck doing that during rush hour or on a TP match day, if the bus shows up at all haha!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,778 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    The Gaelic Grounds would be a bit more of a trot but yeah anybody coming from Ennis would make sense, trains could even run directly from Tipperary on match days



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,399 ✭✭✭✭phog


    The GAA should be encouraged/forced to do the shuttle buses from the new station to the Gaelic Grounds, use the new LNDR from Moyross to the Ennis Rd, bus lane to Ivan's and then use the closed road the grounds.



  • Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭Glenomra


    Good idea but as a Clare supporter I don't think the GAA would need to be 'forced' to implement your suggestion. As a community organisation it would be in their interest to do so so 'encourage' would suffice imo.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,168 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    What is 11 mins. Is that how long they say the train will take ?

    Bus stops all through Moyross so unless you are very lucky it is a walk to the new station and then a walk from Colbert because it is near nothing.

    I would say I get that bus from Moyross a lot more than you and honestly nobody thinks the journey is too long. And they have no problem voicing their opinions on that bus.



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