General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

it's a conversation on a closed off football forum…

And that's a major 'think of the children' leap. For anyone engaging in the subject (which is the context here), it's very clear what point is being made. It's quite fair enough to assume the most basic level of awareness as a common ground for conversation. And if someone is actually confused, dropped in with no idea of the story, there's no shortage of content on one of the biggest stories in football this decade to see them right.

35 of the 115 charges are actually related to the period of 2018-2023, and Man City's refusal to co-operate with the investigation. And delaying it as much as possible. Which is clearly something they are doing as they have something to hide.

As it keeps being said, for someone who repeatedly claims to not be a Man City fan, you're staunch defence of them every single time any sort of a discretion is put against Man City is very odd.

But maybe that's just what is happening now. Deep down, Man City fans know that their club have cheated to win so have to pretend that they don't even support them to try and save face.

That’s absolutely hilarious!

At least you have saved all those dopey people on the soccer forum who don’t know anything about soccer! Although I hope you haven’t confused them too much by constantly mentioning City players and PEDs in the same sentence. Especially with Pep being done in the past. Jeez, I hope you haven’t opened up a can of worms!

True, the 35 charges are related to the period between '18 and '23, ,but only in relation to the investigation and City's refusal to answer requests. The accounting period itself has not been addressed yet.

Bruno G has a 100m release clause. Arsenal are hardly going to pay that level of fee two summers in a row for midfielders are they?

Sesko was linked to Liverpool last year but never went anywhere. I think there were rumours of a 50m release clause after he signed for Leipzig.

There is far too much certainty being expressed on what might happen next year.

All of Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Newcastle and Utd have a mixture of useful players and money to spend. Bar Arteta and maybe Postecoglou there are unknowns or questions marks around management for each team.

This means 3 of those 6 teams are going to be seriously unhappy during next season. I'm not forgetting about Villa either - although I would feel adjusting to the demands of a CL campaign will impact their league form like it did for Newcastle this year.

But there is a very wide range of outcomes here, barring the expectation City are strong favourites entering the new campaign. I would think the most correct take right now is that a lot can happen and the top four will be very competitive.

The only team I'd say are nailed on to be top4 again next season is the City machine…
Everyone else can improve or drop off. They have good seasons or bad seasons. They go in cycles.

City do not.

Arsenal - for as good as they have been the last 2 seasons have fallen short twice. That can take its toll. They need to refresh again this summer and plug those few gaps in their squad with top level signings (LB and Striker). Then they need to have another good season injury-wise again to challenge. It's a big ask. Big ask to go 3 seasons in a row with City. I wouldn't be surprised to see a hangover next season.

Liverpool - New manager so there could be a bedding in period, but the structure behind the manager is top class. I think they will improve again and will go close next season barring the manager being way out of his depth or something. BUT I also think this might be a good summer to cash in on Salah and look to the next generation if there is a big money offer from Saudi again. Timing these sales correctly is key to sides trying to chase the machine.

That might mean Liverpool won't win the league next season (any maybe struggle a bit more in the immediate future) but they could be better positioned to win the league after that by selling Salah. They have people in place who would be smart enough to make that call no doubt and I am sure they will cover all angles.

Villa - I would be surprised if they do as well next season. I think a bit of regression while playing CL could be seen here, similar to the struggles Newcastle had this season. Again - signings will be key and if anyone comes in for their better players. I'd guess they will drop down a couple of positions anyway at least.

Spurs - Son is getting older so they will need to look at the top of the pitch this summer. Richarlison, Werner etc.. are not the players to lead a side to a serious challenge. Ange has them looking class one week and headless the next and that is down to players imo. So they need to replace the players in the squad who don't suit the style if they want it to work more consistently. Not sure how much money they will have but they will have to get clever with a few signings.

Chelsea - It has come together a lot better in the last couple of months. They have momentum and if they get a better striker this summer then there's a top4 team in there, somewhere potentially. Still a bit up in the air on what they are exactly.

They need a CB to replace Thiago Silva as well. Couple of more spots around the squad need improvement. Can they keep James fit? But a lot more positive than it was just 3 months ago

Newcastle - Keeping Bruno G and Isak will be their main story. Keep them and add to the squad smartly and they can push on. Lose them and they have a lot of work to do to get this team above the other clubs going for top4. Lose those 2 and I can't see any realistic challenge from them for CL.

United - Basket case but hopefully that is changing. Some good young talent in the squad but realistically the level of change needed won't happen in one summer window. Need 5/6 players but United have needed 5/6 players for 10 years. The aim for United needs to be to add ~10 points on to the 60 they got this year and hope that the 70-ish points are enough for CL football (Should be if the PL can claim the 5th CL spot next season).

United's aim needs to be that they will have a team that can peak in 2 seasons time or so. A good bit of deadwood to remove yet. ETH needs a strong start to next season with clear improvement needed if he survives the summer.
The positive is INEOS seem to be putting a modern football structure in place at last but the full effect of that will take time. United are playing a catch-up game now.

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So looking at all the main clubs. 5 out of the 8 would have hopes to fight for top 4/5 next season at best IMO

Arsenal / Liverpool are the only teams that realistically have a shot at City and that requires them to have very very good summers. It's so difficult to see an end to the City machine next season anyway.

City got a couple of summer signings wrong last year. They very likely won't do the same again.
They will soon have to start their KDB replacement search. But I think this shows the difference that City's "accounting" has gained them.

As I outlined above I think this would be a good summer for Liverpool to cash in on Salah to allow them to build for the future. City can buy their KDB replacement and keep KDB around in case it doesn't work out or just have the luxury of keeping him around until they are 100% sure they have got it right by testing the replacement, even letting the replacement learn from KDB.

City will never have to offload KDB to refresh their squad so they can be a better team in 2 seasons time.

Their form over the final 10 games of the season (13 points from 30) suggests that Villa were fortunate to get over the line. Tottenham suffered a collapse during the run-in and only finished 2 points behind Villa. Chelsea (21/30) and Newcastle (20/30) were eating up the ground behind them both.

68 points is the lowest points total to qualify for the Champions League in some time, pre-covid it would have meant a 5th/6th place finish at best. This season, Villa were fortunate that Tottenham were unable to replace Kane, Newcastle were devestated by injuries and Chelsea went on a crazy shopping spree last year. It's unlikely that the challenge of qualifying for the Champions League will be easier next season.

Man City consistently pick up 25+ points in the final 10 games of the season. To have a realistic chance of beating them to the league title a team needs to be near perfect. Klopp's Liverpool stumbled in each head to head title challenges, so they found another way.

They changed the pre-season in 2019 so that the players were near peak fitness for the beginning of the season, three months earlier than usual. Instead of improving fitness as the season progressed, the team was a juggernaut from the start. Winning the first 8 games was crucial because it meant a change of dynamic when playing Man City who were already 8 points behind. Failing to close the gap was a psychological blow to the City players.

In the summer of 2022, De Bruyne said in an interview that they had given up any hope of winning the league that season by game #19, Liverpool were on 55 points, 16 ahead of Man City. That's when Guardiola's Man City usually kick on and drive for the title in the second half of the season. To be at their best they need a team to go head to head with. In the second half of the season, Liverpool got 44 points, while Man City got 43. Only in Guardiola's first season as manager did Man City pick up fewer points in the second half of a season.

Arteta's Arsenal pushed then to getting 51 points in the second half of this season, Liverpool had pushed them to 54 points in 2018/19.

Klopp provided a template for getting the better of Man City, Arteta will have to make a change instead of just emulating them.

Villa owners are the 3rd richest in the league and they aren’t afraid to spend I doubt they are worried about holding onto there players. They have champions league football now and have plenty of money to spend.

Regards,

P.

Delaney not shirking the elephant in the room

For football fans this should be a celebration of one of the greatest teams in history, but instead it's a list of competitions won with a huge asterisk beside each one.

Think everyone is just sick of it at this stage.

To go back to the Lance Armstrong comparison it would be like Lance racing in 5/6 tour de Frances afterwards where everyone knows he's juiced and him winning each one.

Even City fans are losing the will to fight. 1 post in the City thread yesterday when they made history by winning 4 in a row. It's poor.

Looking at the Sky Sports YouTube channel
City winning the title and first ever 4 in a row - 612k views currently.
Man Utd win 2-0 away at Brighton with nothing on the line - 717k views
(Highlights have 1.3M views on Utd's YouTube channel as well)

It just shows that City can't generate the interest. Those numbers would be through the roof if it was Utd, Pool or Arsenal that had won the league yesterday. They wouldn't be lower than an end of season dead game highlights from Utd.

But… hey Sponsors are falling over themselves to sponsor this City team because that is obviously the best way to promote your business/brand 🤣

Yes but I hear it comes with a free hotel stay for the entire team when they are playing at Stamford bridge......B&B with one evening meal😋

Obviously more people are going to score stuff about Arsenal, Liverpool a d particularly United as they are bigger clubs than City. I don't think you'll get an argument from anybody about that.

As regards sponsorship, having your brand advertised by a team that's competitive and winning titles is the dream.

I'd still believe that having anything advertised by United, Real Madrid or Barcelona is bigger though.

And yet I'm sure you'd agree that having your sponsorship tied to a club with such huge publicly and officially made charges of cheating and corruption would normally be a major PR issue, and signal a downturn in sponsorship value. Not here though. Odd, eh?

The only people talking about this stuff is football fans online, both here and the UK. The rest of the world doesn't give a continental about it. How many of us were up in arms about what went on in Italy with Juventus? Or any other controversy anywhere else?

The English media aren't talking about it and you can be sure there's no one thinking of it in France, Italy, Spain or anywhere else.

So a worldwide sponsor has no issue sponsoring City.

If city are found guilty it won't matter a fig to their sponsors as most of them are UAE connected.