Winter Fuel Payments for pensioners on 52k per year, Is Our welfare system out of touch?

Surely the pensioners with contribitory state pensions deserve to draw them ,what about the influx of oap from Ukraine and the parents of refugees who arrive here ,clog up our hospitals ,qualify for medical cards and qualify for state pension while never working here for even 1 day in their lives maybe point the finger at them

Pensioners who contributed all their working lives and rely on the state contributory pension receive 277pw, while someone who never worked and never paid into the SW pot will receive 266pw. I know that cohort also covers citizens who cannot work through disability, but it is a very small difference in the amount for those who actually paid for their pension.

Also, workers will likely have paid for their own home, gp, medicines, etc etc. throughout their working life, while a non-worker would have received those items from the state in addition to other supports that are not available to most workers.

People seem to forget that a state contributory pension has been paid into (for many years) by those receiving it.

So I do not begrudge my taxes going to support a citizen who has worked and contributed to the public purse over several decades. Whether that is providing a GP card for over 70's, or help to heat their home if they meet the qualifying tests, older age citizens should be supported. They are the people who stayed here through the recessions and tough times when the country was broke, raised families, worked and paid high taxes.

This discussion is not about those receiving the contributory OAP, but those receiving the contributory OAP plus a substantial occupational / private pension on top.

They're a lot richer than most working people, given advantageous tax treatments, non-means-tested GP cards, no kids to pay for, and no rent or mortgage (in almost all cases).

stop bashing pensioners who saved for their own retirement and paid hundreds of thousands of tax in their lifetime.

Save your complaints for freeloaders

I think you will find the freeloaders are the ones bashing the pensioners

Where did their high income come from?

A previous high income I guess, which they paid tax on, so what exactly is your issue?

"Debate" around pensioners entitlements, like water charges and inheritance taxes, a case study in cognitive dissonance

• we should tax the rich, except if they've gotten to the (arbitrary enough) age of 65
• you pay tax "all your life" - you're exempt from any scrutiny but only once you hit 65. Should a person (me for example) in their 40s having paid a large 7 figure sum in income taxes alone (then add in indirect taxes) be entitled to anything? No - however the day you hit 65 then yes. I don't hear anyone saying "these people under 65 pay shedloads of tax - give them a medical card it's the least they deserve" but once one becomes a certain age they've "contributed" so should get the red carpet treatment
• funniest is when left leaning people start making an argument for a system where the more you pay into the system the more you should get out - but of course only once a person hits the magical age of 65. Before that you're merely a sponge that no matter how much you're squeezed for then they're like an insatiable monster wanting more, more, more from you

Its no wonder pensioners are so cossetted by politicians (over 65 demographic experiences lowest levels of deprivation, poverty, at risk of poverty etc) and the old age pension has increased by multiples of CPI in the past 30 or so years. Not only are they protecting the grey vote but they lose relatively few votes (if any) from the U65s paying for the largess

That's my point, they availed of a very generous tax break.

There's a lot more than "a very small cohort" putting money into pensions with 40% tax relief.

Look at the huge industry that has developed to meet the needs of these savers.

To be honest, I am not sure what your point is on the tax free pension contributions and this thread Ultimately to be pensionable, it has to earned income. These people that the OP and other mentioned with big pensions worked for them. The tax break means nothing, it's still their money. They were not just given them. All through their working lives they paid tax, and perhaps benefited little from welfare during that time.

Meanwhile there is a significant cohort of people that for various reasons contributed little to nothing, got or are getting.loads of welfare benefits and now see these 'rich former workers' with big pensions as fair game to criticise for getting some State benefits in their later years so they can get even more benefits. As others said, it's just begrudgery.

Personally, I think it's a great idea that older people have free GP cards etc. The State knows these people are more likely to attend for regular check ups where minor medical ailments can be detected early and possibly divert them away from a chronically stretched health service. The State is clearly thinking or playing the long game.

The efforts of the industry to get the €2million cap raised to €5 million recently wouldn't suggest a focus on small savers.

'The tax break means nothing'???? The tax break means a 40% uplift on their pension fund, with tax foregone by the State as a result. If it means nothing, then let's just wipe out the tax break and see how many people reckon it means nothing! They benefit hugely from growth of the tax free amount too of course.

They're also far less likely to pay tax on that money, certainly not ALL of that money, given the generous tax breaks for older people.

YES - the very people you refer to pay loads of prsi/tax AND also pay into a private pension.

Perhaps I am missing your point?

If boards still exists in 20 to 30 years I can see this thread being resurrected and some posters having a very different outlook!

Let the pensioners enjoy their money and free time. It's the only time in life anyone can have both at the same time.

exactly, then the very same people will be crying into their cornflakes demanding that the Government increase the pension rate and give everyone the fuel allowance!

Many of these pensioners worked in very different times, mortgage rates were 17/18%, there was no insulation in houses, ice and condensation on the inside of windows. There were NO treats!! Everyday now we "treat" ourselves because "we're worth it"!! Netflix, Spotify, Amazon Prime memberships, new phone every few years, at least one holiday a year, lots of weekend breaks, lavish weddings with 3 day hen parties…………NONE of that was part of life for these pensioners, they scrimped and saved and used every last bit of food in the fridge.

I know this because despite my father having a great business and a wife and 7 kids, my parents were frugal and always saved for the future (for us),grew all their fruit and vegetables, hens in the garden for eggs, a holiday once a year in Donegal. My father lost all his money which he had invested from his business in the Black Monday crash in 1987. We never had daily treats of chocolate or cakes. Life now is luxury beyond belief compared to then. But are we happier? The answer to that is obvious!

Let these people enjoy those few golden years before bad health takes over!