Heineken Cup (Champions Cup) Final build up thread

sydthebeat · 22-05-2024 11:05am #1

The pinnacle club rugby fixture is coming in over the horizon, as Leinster Rugby and Stade Toulousain battle it out in the Investec Champions Cup Final this Saturday. The state of the art Tottenham Hotspur Stadium is the venue, and the stage is set for an unforgettable afternoon of action between these two titans of the URC and the French Top 14.

The two most decorated clubs in EPCR history, Leinster Rugby and Stade Toulousain will both be appearing in their eighth tournament final. Stade Toulousain lead the way with five Champions Cup titles whilst Leinster have four and are looking to equalise their French counterparts this weekend. The Dubliners will be playing in their third consecutive Champions Cup Final and will once again be taking on opponents from the land of ‘Les Bleus’.

shamelessly stolen from:

https://www.ruck.co.uk/two-most-decorated-epcr-clubs-champions-cup-final-preview-leinster-rugby-vs-stade-toulousain/

have at it !!!!

Leinster by 15 points

Hermy · 22-05-2024 11:18am

The Dubliners…???

sydthebeat · 22-05-2024 11:20am

OLSC CC final travel guide attached:

Leinster-v-Toulouse_Guide.pdf

Supporters Bases – Before KO – THE BEEHIVE

Before kick-off why not look to meet friends at The Beehive, tucked away in the heart Tottenham with cosy interiors and a large beer garden. Located about a 10min walk from Tottenham Hale Station, they’re known as the best spot in Tottenham for pre and post-match drink/ food playing host to both home and away supporters.

Supporters Base – AFTER KO - O Neills Wardour St

O’Neill’s Wardour Street After the final whistle we’ll be relocating to O’Neill’s Wardour Street. Just a short walk from Leicester Square Tube Station, this is your Local Irish Pub in Soho, London.

sydthebeat · 22-05-2024 11:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169123#Comment_122169123

its an english publication, these things are to be expected

Hermy · 22-05-2024 11:23am

Stupid me - I missed that it was cut and pasted from the linked article.

…runs away

Former Former Former · 22-05-2024 12:44pm

For those who care, Leinster are narrowest of favourites with bookies, a one-point handicap.

22-05-2024 12:58pm

can a mod please correct the title of this thread to avoid confusion. It’s a lame private joke from @sydthebeat calling it the “Heineken cup” and everyone knows that private jokes go down like lead balloons once outside the group and make people look silly.

sydthebeat · 22-05-2024 1:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169636#Comment_122169636

google "heineken cup 2024" and post the first result here please?

if its a "private joke" id like to get all my royalties from google please, and ill retire immediately :D

22-05-2024 1:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169739#Comment_122169739

Google “rabobank rugby pro12 2024” and tell me what you find.

You know well that Heinekens title sponsorship finished last season and it’s called the investec cup (unless you have zero interest in rugby) but choose to try to act cool. You have even referenced it on the post you copied and paste, did you not preread your post? Not the first time you’ve tired to push a private joke agenda on here. Gets boring

Dial Hard · 22-05-2024 1:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169847#Comment_122169847

I think you might be reading something into this that isn't there. Pretty much everyone I know (including me) still refers to it as the Heineken Cup.

Anyway, roll on Saturday! It's going to be a long day (flying out at 06.20) but I can't wait!

Buddy Bubs · 22-05-2024 1:32pm

Investec? Never once heard of that and I watch most European matches!!!! It turns out to be correct of course.

I thought Heineken took it back over again recently?

pc7 · 22-05-2024 1:37pm

Heading over Saturday morning, looking forward to it. I thought it was just Investec cause of the laws in France around alcohol advertising, Heineken still a major sponsor.

sydthebeat · 22-05-2024 1:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169847#Comment_122169847

whatever, go be argumentative somewhere else, youre not worth any response.

all on board the Heineken Cup train !!!! choo choo

22-05-2024 1:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169847#Comment_122169847

A lot of people still refer to it as the Heineken Cup. Brilliant branding by Heineken, awful by Investec.

Do you work in Investec marketing department or something?

aloooof · 22-05-2024 1:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169847#Comment_122169847

Mod: Time to move on to talking about the rugby.

Clegg · 22-05-2024 2:02pm

Very hard to call this one. Leinster have gotten the better of Toulouse in our last three fixtures, including two semi finals in a row.

That was a differently coached Leinster team though and I worry that Leinsters move away from the tight attacking structure, centred around the pod system and quickly clearing out the rucks, might play into how Toulouse like defending.

Toulouse's main defensive weapon is the poach. How Leinster attacked under Lancaster meant it was very hard for them to get to grips at the breakdown and they were blown away as a result. Leinster still attack that way but, but it's less polished as we've clearly focussed a lot of time on defence and in developing our unstructured, transition attack. It worked well against La Rochelle, but may not suit against Toulouse.

We've performed well on the big occasions this season, namely the home and away victories over La Rochelle. The QF victory was even more impressive considering we were without two World Class players in Keenan and Ryan. Their return last weekend has been timely and could swing the final in our favour.

Toulouse are prone to giving up penalties and line breaks of they can't poach the ball. We've seen that they can be scored against rather frequently as well. If we keep the pressure on we can force mistakes from them.

pickarooney · 22-05-2024 2:06pm

I can see it being close up to about 50 minutes then Toulouse will score a couple of times in quick succession and put it to bed. Best way to stop them is to force errors and penalties around the contact area and kick for points. Kelleher will probably score late on to make it look close.

pc7 · 22-05-2024 2:06pm

I can't call it, think it'll be very close and decided by a moment of magic (Dupont/Ntamack/Gibson Park) or madness with a yellow or red. Just hoping Jacques holds the key. Cant even consider being 0/3 on Sunday morning flying home.

StormForce13 · 22-05-2024 2:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170008#Comment_122170008

Aren't Investec big in South Africa? That may explain their involvement. Also, the South African teams didn't participate in the Heineken Cup, so perhaps the aim is to try to get them to call it the Investec Cup (or the I Cup for short)!

BraveDonut · 22-05-2024 2:17pm

3 tickets available if anyone is still looking

Face value

pickarooney · 22-05-2024 2:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170228#Comment_122170228

The Heineken Investec Champions Cup, or HICCUP

Clegg · 22-05-2024 4:03pm

Its weeks like this that you'd miss Venjur. Shame he's gone.

awec · 22-05-2024 4:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170171#Comment_122170171

I don't think the previous results against Toulouse carry any weight tbh. I know you hammered them 2 years ago but I think too much has changed since then.

Leinster's defensive system is very different under Nienaber vs Lancaster.

Podge_irl · 22-05-2024 4:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170767#Comment_122170767

We hammered them 2 years ago and last year and I agree it's meaningless.

It's less the defensive system then what we do with the ball that concerns me.

awec · 22-05-2024 4:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170794#Comment_122170794

Forgot all about last year tbh!

22-05-2024 4:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170767#Comment_122170767

Hammered them 1 year ago too (41-22).

We've played them 14 times overall, winning 8 (57.14%), but we've won 5 out of the last 6 games between the teams with an average winning margin of 14 points.

It's not nothing - the concept of bogey teams is real, and I feel if Leinster make a good start and get a lead here, this sort of stuff will weigh heavily on Toulouse. Throw in the last two big wins in the last two seasons an Ireland team have had that is majority Leinster against a French team that is majority Toulouse too.

On the flip side, you could definitely argue eventually these things flip around, and just like Leinster had huge motivation to beat LAR this year, Toulouse must have that in buckets for Leinster.

awec · 22-05-2024 4:28pm

Just to point out, if Toulouse win this then Leinster will have lost more finals in the Champions Cup than any other club (4).

Currently tied with Leicester, Clermont and Racing on 3.

Toulon have been runners up in the Challenge Cup 4 times, so in overall Europe terms you'd tie with them on that.

pickarooney · 22-05-2024 5:12pm

Still a 50% win rate in finals, as opposed to the 0% of Clermont and Racing but a pretty **** run of 4 in a row.

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3 · 23-05-2024 8:51am

rumoured leinster side:

1. Porter
2. Sheehan
3. Furlong
4. Jenkins
5. McCarthy
6. Baird
7. Connors
8. Doris
9. JGP
10. Ross
11. Lowe
12. Osborne
13. Henshaw
14. Larmor
15. Keenan
16. Kelleher
17. Healy
18. Mike A
19. Ryan
20. Conan
21. JVDF
22. McGrath
23. Frawley

sydthebeat · 23-05-2024 8:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122172973#Comment_122172973

Hell of a lot of oomph from that bench.

Need JGP to go 80 again.

sydthebeat · 23-05-2024 9:00am

rumoured Toulouse line up:

Baille
Marchand
Aldegheri
Flament
Meafou
Cros
Willis
Roumat
Dupont
Ntamack
Lebel
Ahki
Costes
Mallia
Kinghorn

https://x.com/actu_stade/status/1793333901370253419

"white bib" theory

id be delighted if the dont start Ramos to be honest.

23-05-2024 9:00am

Basically it's Will Connors over Jimmy O'Brien. It's a really close call. If we don't have any injuries in the backline, then Connors is probably the right option.

23-05-2024 9:05am

This is the rumoured Toulouse selection doing the rounds as well:

1 Baille
2 Marchand
3 Aldegheri
4 Flament
5 Meafou
6 Cros
7 Willis
8 Roumat
9 Dupont
10 Ntamack
11 Lebel
12 Ahki
13 Costes
14 Mallia
15 Kinghorn

Really interesting to me if they opt for Marchand over Mauvaka - to me it's the logical call, but it hasn't been the way they've selected their sides this season. I think it points to them trying to go after us on the deck and go for jackals.

Leinster and Ireland have done a good job historically negating Jack Willis, by running and him and making him the tackler. If he has 15+ tackles on Saturday then I think we win.

Kinghorn over Ramos is a huge call. Kinghorn hasn't looked overly convincing IMO off the tee, and the Molecast yesterday had a great stat about how of the last 6 or so finals Toulouse have won (Top14 and Europe) their kicking stats are over 90% across those games. Kinghorn is probably the better player, but Ramos is unquestionably the better kicker.

theVersatile · 23-05-2024 9:51am

Yeah, Toulouse's continues preference of Kinghorn over Ramos in these games is interesting.

I still think Toulouse will be licking their lips at Larmour - he's vulnerable in the backfield and didn't feature much v Northampton (mind none of Leinster's attack did feature that day to any great extent). I'd be very surprised if O'Brien wasn't in instead.

BoardsMember · 23-05-2024 9:55am

I don't like the 6-2 split, too risky. I'd prefer to see JOB on the bench in a 5-3, or starting ahead of Larmourin a 6-2. Larmour is playing great rugby but I think JOB pace and all-round game (under the high ball, cover other positions) is more attractive/less disruption with an injury. And I'd go Foley on the bench, I know it's not going to happen, but I don't know why you put someone on you know is going to be poor - they should have left Foley at 9 last week as a trial. I'd also start Ryan, I still am not over Jenkins no show last year as sub, I'd prefer to let Ryan empty himself.

23-05-2024 9:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173288#Comment_122173288

I would definitely go for JOB over Larmour. It's harsh on Larmour who has had a really good season and hasn't done much wrong, but for a variety of reasons I'd have JOB:

-think he's quicker in a straight line (doesn't have Larmour's footwork), has better hands and better ability to link the play.

-He's a much better defender IMO, even though this is an area where Larmour has improved this season. Think JOB is more secure under a high ball and his positioning in the backfield is generally better.

-He's way more versatile, can cover at least 4 positions to a higher level IMO.

theVersatile · 23-05-2024 10:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173314#Comment_122173314

He's way more versatile

Hehehe, I see what you did there :)

aloooof · 23-05-2024 11:44am

Ruck (and DuPont, obviously) the big factor in this one for me.

Leinster are far more willing to throw bodies into the defensive ruck to disrupt under Nienaber, whereas it was way more about bodies on your feet and in the line under Lancaster. If they can disrupt the clean ball, that’s a huge win for them.

The flip side is, committing numbers to the ruck means fewer in the line, and more space out wide. Even at a ruck that Leinster don’t contest, DuPont’s presence alone will bring a gravity towards it, narrowing Leinster. Couple that with Leinster’s up-and-in defence, it could leave a lot of space out wide if Toulouse can get it beyond the edge.

You could see Leinster stifling for large spells in regular phase play, but Toulouse making 30 yards off one phase, imo.

Having said all that, I have a suspicion Leinster are going to put on a clinic here and run out 12-15 point winners. Maybe with Doris with a MOTM performance.

Exclamation Marc · 23-05-2024 12:24pm

Weather looking clear and dry for Saturday. Highs of 20°.

Ribs1234 · 23-05-2024 1:26pm

Leinster have so much talent in the back row it makes sense to put two of them on the bench. We don’t have that talent depth in the back line to go 5-3

El Vino · 23-05-2024 2:40pm

Has Kinghorne actually played since he broke his nose in semi, seems pretty quick recovery?

23-05-2024 2:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122174673#Comment_122174673

Nope.

snotboogie · 23-05-2024 2:53pm

Leinster to come out and try to throw absolutely everything at Toulouse in the first 30 minutes and kill the game off early. If Toulouse can hold on within a score I think they'll go ahead with a purple patch after Leinster's strong start and be able to hold out till the end. If Leinster can execute and not give Toulouse turnover ball to attack from in the first 30 minutes I think the game will be effectively over by halftime.

Clo-Clo · 23-05-2024 3:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173288#Comment_122173288

Ramos lost the head last year and really should have got a red card for a tackle in second half. Leinster had his number and got him wound up very easily. That could be in Toulouse mind

Clo-Clo · 23-05-2024 3:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122174729#Comment_122174729

That was last years plan, nearly worked

Ardillaun · 23-05-2024 6:32pm

Where is a good pub in Dublin to watch it? I won’t be too early so it shouldn’t be jammed. One more stipulation. Am staying at the airport but can travel to Southside.

Ardillaun · 23-05-2024 6:35pm

Imagine being able to bring on Mauvaka as an impact sub.

Exclamation Marc · 23-05-2024 6:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122175400#Comment_122175400

The Bridge, The Bath, The Landmark, Slatterys, Merrion Inn are the places recommended by the Supporters Club. Recommend booking a table if you can.

Bear in mind that the FA Cup Final is on at the same time so a regular sports bar could have that on whereas you can guarantee the ones above will have the Leinster game as priority

Clegg · 23-05-2024 6:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122175437#Comment_122175437

That's where I'd recommend too. Ryan's on Beggar's Bush will absolutely have the game as well.

The Baggot Street pubs will be showing the rugby too. Doheny & Nesbitt, Searsons, McGrattans etc.

Quitelife · 23-05-2024 7:10pm

Dont wander off Tottenham high road the day of the match most definetly at night time , an area thats really gone downhill with stabbings/potscode gang wars etc over the past ten years

Ardillaun · 23-05-2024 8:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122175437#Comment_122175437

Yes. Terrible timing. Thanks for that. Haven’t been in the Merrion Inn in many decades.

Heineken Cup (Champions Cup) Final build up thread

Comments

all on board the Heineken Cup train !!!! choo choo