Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

IRFU Funding Model changes

Options
13567

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,036 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170138#Comment_122170138

    I never said that, I said the IRFU are not the people who identify the candidates. They are just part of the approval process.

    As I said in the case of Van Grann, with Munster and Rassie backing Van Grann do you think the IRFU would turn around and reject the proposal?

    Or when Munster came to IRFU asking for his contract to get extended that the IRFU would say no?



  • Options
    #63
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,036 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170159#Comment_122170159

    But they do, the head coach is the only role the IRFU has any say in, the rest of the coachs are down to the province.

    The province also pick the head coach as I said, not the IRFU, so again the province put forward the coach they want, not the other way around



  • Options
    #64
    StormForce13
    Registered Users Posts: 309 ✭✭StormForce13


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169951#Comment_122169951

    So was it the IRFU or the Ulster Branch who paid the SRU to have Dan McFarland released early from his Scottish contract?

    And was it the IRFU or the UB who paid off his contract when he was terminated?



  • Options
    #65
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,264 ✭✭✭✭phog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170165#Comment_122170165

    You're implying poor corporate governance



  • Options
    #66
    Ayan Helpful Gynecologist
    Posts: 0 ✭ Ayan Helpful Gynecologist


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170207#Comment_122170207

    You're absolving Munster of any role in poor decisions that have been made, and, not for the first time, seeking to cast blame at the IRFU.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,519 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169989#Comment_122169989

    by all accounts the figure is going from €8m to €10m, not the other way round.

    this is all hypothetical anyway, lets see what happens.



  • Options
    #68
    ulsteru20s
    Registered Users Posts: 2,531 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170223#Comment_122170223

    In a normal market and with restrictions on who can be signed (majority irish), i think that would mean player wages would go up, but possibly not squad sizes? It is hard to predict though. I guess provinces not competing on wages would affect that but some upward pressure.



  • Options
    #69
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,519 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170257#Comment_122170257

    Player wages going up significantly in a monopolistic system like irish club rugby is the last thing the IRFU will allow to happen.

    The wage levels dont seem to be a detriment currently to holding on to players, so im not sure what is expected to change after these changes are implemented. Maybe more room for IQ players from abroad? More likely expanded academies in my opinion, with perhaps one or two extra spots in squads.



  • Options
    #70
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    IRFU want all 4 provinces to thrive and contribute international standard players to play for Ireland.

    With that in mind it makes no sense to have any one province top heavy with centrally contracted players.

    This is an attempt to rebalance things a little I suspect.



  • Options
    #71
    Ayan Helpful Gynecologist
    Posts: 0 ✭ Ayan Helpful Gynecologist


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170285#Comment_122170285

    Yeah, obviously.

    But the issue is the production of players, not the granting of central contracts to them at the time when they've already demonstrated themselves to be of significant international standard.

    Simply throwing more cash at the other provinces won't address this issue unless it's specifically targeted at improving player development pathways. Allowing the other provinces to spend more cash on NIQs or pay their own existing players more does nothing to address that issue.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,762 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170285#Comment_122170285

    This change is unlikely to affect centrally contracted players. Those are going to be concentrated in Leinster for the foreseeable future.

    The change will come at the levels below that.



  • Options
    #73
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170296#Comment_122170296

    I think it'll add to player mobility between the provinces to a degree.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Options
    #74
    ulsteru20s
    Registered Users Posts: 2,531 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170278#Comment_122170278

    The academies are already fully funded by the irfu as far as i know. It would be cool if they paid them a little more though.

    I guess it could make provinces more competitive for the best IQ players from abroad.

    The other provinces pathways are looking better to me to some extent underage but the results remain to be seen. There does seem to be spending happening there.



  • Options
    #75
    Ayan Helpful Gynecologist
    Posts: 0 ✭ Ayan Helpful Gynecologist


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170308#Comment_122170308

    Not unless there is also a change to the policy around allowing the provinces to outbid each other for each other's players.

    If the IRFU sign off on that, they're basically just allowing for more wage inflation as they effectively bid against themselves for the same players.

    There is scant enough evidence that more movement will actually lead to more international quality players available for Ireland - i.e. there isn't much evidence to suggest Max Deegan will be any better a player if he moves to Ulster etc.



  • Options
    #76
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,762 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170326#Comment_122170326

    It doesn't necessarily have to drive wages up. It could force player movement through teams being forced to offer reduced terms to players on the fringes of their squad. That same player could get a better contract at another province.

    Hypothetically, if Leinster were paying 30% of their central contracts this year, could they afford to pay a player of the experience of Max Deegan to be a bit-part fringe player for them? Probably not, so Deegan would move elsewhere.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Options
    #77
    Ayan Helpful Gynecologist
    Posts: 0 ✭ Ayan Helpful Gynecologist


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170392#Comment_122170392

    But we've no clarity on how this works at the moment - our current understanding is that the provinces can't outbid one another, the other provinces can simply match the offer from the home province. This is why some guys have left to go overseas in the past.

    What you're proposing is still essentially a scenario that allows out-bidding, but agreed in that scenario it wouldn't necessarily lead to wage inflation.

    On the overall though - if it is the case that the funding pool has increased (which it seems to have), but there isn't a change to NIQ policy, and there doesn't seem much rationale to expand the squads, then it seems we're just going to pay our existing players a bit more?



  • Options
    #78
    Ben Bailey
    Registered Users Posts: 645 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122169720#Comment_122169720

    The present funding model (insofar as anyone outside the IRFU knows) takes into account the gate receipts at each Province. Leinster average 18,000 at URC games (URC avg = 9893 in 22/23 season). Provinces keep gate receipts but it's all factored into what funds come from HQ. Paper exercise.



  • Options
    #79
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,036 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170207#Comment_122170207

    No Im not, you want to point the finger at the IRFU for poor choices at the provincial level.



  • Options
    #80
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,036 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170392#Comment_122170392

    If you think these players will suddenly move to another province just because the IRFU have forced their province to stop paying them I think you might be mistaken, I think we will end up forcing players from Ireland.

    If you are a player like Deegan who wants to stay at Leinster and it comes to end of his contract, Leinster turn around and say well due to this change we can't keep you, we want to but we can't. Why would this player want to stay within the IRFU? jump to England/France, the IRFU have just screwed you over

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170223#Comment_122170223

    I doubt that, as I posted I can't see the IRFU suddenly increasing player wages by 33%> this is just based on years of the IRFU and how they run the game in Ireland which has been a success. Handing over 33% more of their revenue for what reason? I don't see the business case.



  • Options
    #81
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,036 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170398#Comment_122170398

    then it seems we're just going to pay our existing players a bit more?

    Which makes no sense? it's not like Ireland is losing players now due to wages, so people seem to think suddenly the IRFU have agreed to give a 33% raise to all players in Ireland

    If I go back to Jackman said years ago, when the big French TV deal came into play. Grenoble thought they would suddenly be able to buy in big names and have a better squad. But all that happened was they ended up signing the same players they would of without the additional TV money, just paid them a lot more. So it was no big change for Grenoble

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #82
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,264 ✭✭✭✭phog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170657#Comment_122170657

    No I'm not, you started this in some effort to turn the discussion into a provincial mud slinging exercise. Foolishly, I entertained you.

    It won't happen again.



  • Options
    #83
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,036 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170700#Comment_122170700

    No I didn't, I responded to someone else who raised the point.

    Read the thread next time before you start slinging around accusations



  • Options
    #84
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Mod: Clo-Clo and phog to not reply to each other on thread again.



  • Options
    #85
    Ayan Helpful Gynecologist
    Posts: 0 ✭ Ayan Helpful Gynecologist


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170699#Comment_122170699

    Yeah, I completely agree. It's why this doesn't really make a huge amount of sense.



  • Options
    #86
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,762 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170679#Comment_122170679

    If you think these players will suddenly move to another province just because the IRFU have forced their province to stop paying them I think you might be mistaken, I think we will end up forcing players from Ireland. 

    But in this hypothetical scenario, a player like Deegan leaving Ireland wouldn't really be a loss, he's never going to trouble the Ireland selectors.

    In this scenario where Leinster are forced to offer reduced terms to players like Deegan there are 3 possible outcomes:

    1. He accepts the reduced terms.
    2. He moves to another province, and therefore talent is being more effectively utilised.
    3. He moves to England or France, which frees up his entire wage to be better invested elsewhere.



  • Options
    #87
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,753 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170739#Comment_122170739

    Ulster should value Deegan more than Leinster and it makes no sense that he can only attract the same wage at both provinces. It's a flaw in the system - which will never be perfect.



  • Options
    #88
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,762 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170755#Comment_122170755

    Kind of agree.

    I think Ulster can pay him more if we offer him a higher category of contract than he's on at Leinster. But I imagine that by this stage he's on a fairly decent contract at Leinster, and Ulster may have had to offer him a stupid contract to make it worthwhile.

    The flaw for me is whether or not it's correct that Leinster's 3rd/4th choice in his position should be paid as much, if not more, than the 1st or 2nd choice at Ulster for example. This is where the system becomes an inefficient use of money.

    If the likes of Deegan stays at Leinster (which he did) then his wage should reflect his position in the pecking order at his club, and the changes to the funding model are kind of a forcing function on that as it will force the likes of Leinster to think more carefully about where the money is spent if they are having to contribute more to other player contracts that historically they haven't had to contribute to.



  • Options
    #89
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I always felt the CC distribution from next season of 10 vs 1 each elsewhere, was unsustainable. It's couched
    in vague language - "up to 30%" - but this does appear to me some step to redress the imbalance that would have existed if still 100% union funded.



  • Options
    #90
    Ayan Helpful Gynecologist
    Posts: 0 ✭ Ayan Helpful Gynecologist


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170755#Comment_122170755

    It's there for good reason though - ultimately it's the same fundamental Irish playing pool and the same ultimate payor, the IRFU.

    Max Deegan isn't in the Ireland squad because he's not as good as Jack Conan or Caelan Doris. I can't see the logic for how he's going to become better than them by moving to Ulster. He gets lots of game time as is.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #91
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,753 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122170823#Comment_122170823

    I don't think he is going to become better. But him moving to Ulster can make the provinces better and if Leinster replace his role with a younger player and Ulster don't have to look elsewhere it is even possible the overall wage bill goes down.

    Unless the argument is simply the IRFU don't give a crap about the provincial performances at all

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


Advertisement