Question on "Unwritten Rules"

DialecticAspirations · 21-05-2024 8:10am #1

Hi,

I posted in the Newbies forum, but now think I should have put it here…

It seems like there are some "unwritten rules" for the forum in general that I was hoping to get some information on.

It could be that you're supposed to just learn as you go, but as not knowing one of these un-written rules has resulted in my first warning, I thought I'd seek clarification here before I get bashed by a banhammer. I'm hoping I'm wrong, and there are pages already written on these topics.

1 - Anecdotes. These seem to be not allowed in some threads. Is it just a rule specific to Current Affairs? I get the idea behind it - people can just make stuff up to back up their opinion, so it can be abused. But at the same time it can make communication/posting very difficult in some instances. Is there any existing thread/post that gives some information/definition on this? Is it just done on a case by case basis, as applied by a mod who subjectively decides?

2- Back seat modding. Again, I get the idea, but the application seems a bit unclear to me. Example : Person 1 attacks Person 2 instead of Person 2's post. Person 2 posts saying "Person 1, you are attacking me, not my post" → is Person 2 back seat modding here and will get a warning? If so, what should they do instead? Simply report the post?

It feels a bit heavy-handed /overly process-focused to report that kind of thing every time, when you could just highlight that Person 1 is attacking Person 2 (i.e. engaging in an ad-hominen attack), the same way you might point out a straw-man argument when it is made.

3 - Stating that you are going to ignore someone. This one I don't understand well. You're simply letting the person know that you won't be able to see their posts again. If you don't say it, it could cause confusion within that thread or elsewhere. I guess the idea is to avoid offending the ignored person? In any case, again - is there more detail written somewhere on this?

If there are more that I have not mentioned, please let me know.

And btw, saying that all these follow from the rule : "don't be a dick", and so we don't need this level of detail is clearly untrue. The anecdote rule, for example, is just one solution to solve the problem of that particular kind of lie, and offering a truthful anecdote is not "being a dick". So it's unreasonable to expect people to logically extrapolate all these rules from that one rule.

Thanks for any help that anyone can provide.

P.S. Technical question - do I have enough posts now to be able to post hyperlinks? I tried to do that the other day and failed. Could just be "user error" but wanted to check if there's another reason.

Cheers.

Beasty · 22-05-2024 7:19pm

I think there is one current thread in CA with a "no anecdote" rule set out in the OP - ie the rule is written and you are directed to read the OP in the thread title. It was applied to the thread as so called "anecdotes" had resulted in the closure of a prior thread on refugees. We had a choice - allow discussion without such "anecdotes" or don't allow the discussion. We chose to allow the discussion without anecdotes.

Backseat moderation is not acceptable anywhere on this site. If you have an issue with a post or poster report it and leave the modding to the mods

Is person 2 backseat modding - yes. They should report it and a mod will look at the report and act as they see necessary. Will they get a warning? That is at the discretion of the mod. If they do it regularly then yes they can expect a warning. Equally a nil point "warning" is a way to attach a post to a PM explaining why the post was inappropriate/deleted. The odd nil pointy warning does not amount to much assuming no repeat

You do not need to say you will ignore someone - just do it. You ignoring anyone is nothing to do with the topic - it is essentially discussing the user. It is openly implying criticism of the poster rather than the post and you can expect a warning for being uncivil. It boils down to "attack the post, not the poster"

Musicrules · 23-05-2024 12:50pm

Hello. I'm not posting in relation to this thread. I can't open a new thread, can anyone tell me why that is the case? Thanks.

Ten of Swords · 23-05-2024 12:59pm

If you are using the mobile site you will notice prison bars on your profile avatar (these don't show on the desktop site for some reason)

This means that you have accumulated sufficient warnings that the system has placed additional restrictions on your profile, including being unable to start new threads.

Warning points expire one by one each week. When these warnings have expired you will be able to create threads again.

/off topic

23-05-2024 1:02pm

Wow, is that a first in that the upgrade has a cool feature?

Musicrules · 23-05-2024 1:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122174061#Comment_122174061

But how can I appeal a warning without starting a new thread?

Spear · 23-05-2024 1:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122174099#Comment_122174099

By PMing me or Shield as the DRP rules state to do so.

Musicrules · 23-05-2024 1:17pm

Ok, thank you.

Beasty · 23-05-2024 3:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122174099#Comment_122174099

Please note your latest warning was issued by an Admin in an Admin capacity. As you have already been told that is not appealable

Musicrules · 23-05-2024 4:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122174888#Comment_122174888

Hello. That's actually what I wanted to make a thread about. The admin overruled a decision by another admin. I have been nothing but polite and courteous to the admin in question but they seem adamant about giving me a number of warnings about a particular issue. To me, they seem so adamant that this issue appears to be personal for them. I could be wrong but for them to give me 2 warnings over it, to state instantly that I couldn't appeal it and then to message others to get their side of the story in seems off.

This is suspicious to me. I'm not trying to cause trouble it's just I don't think the treatment of myself has been fair and balanced. I'm sure you have access to our PM conversation? Do you also have access to PM's involving the issue in question? I'm asking for someone to look into this and to please look into this with an open mind. Thank you.

Big Bag of Chips · 23-05-2024 4:54pm

@Musicrules just to clarify, I did not over-rule another admin. Nor did I message anyone else to get my side of the story across. And PMs are not visible to anyone other than the people involved in the PM.

I applied a warning outlining the reason for the warning. That warning is visible on your account to all moderators. That is how Beasty knows what I said about it not being open to the appeals process. I have explain in a number of PMs to you why you received the warning. The warning was applied as you don't seem to be getting the message and I thought a warning was the best way to get your attention.

You had a dispute on pretty much this identical issue upheld last week. This week you start a thread again discussing a situation that has already been dealt with.

We do not discuss actions taken against any posters with other users. We also don't allow posters with a grudge to start threads about other users and take digs at them. This has all been explained to you, a number of times. And you have been warned that the next time you bring this issue up you will receive a temporary siteban.

I suggest you move on now. Everyone else has.

Do not post in this thread again. It is completely off topic and you have been told you have no grounds for appeal.

Musicrules · 23-05-2024 5:11pm

Hello. I'm sorry but it wasn't an identical issue at all as I've stated in the pm conversation we had and you did overrule a decision already made. My suspicions are raised further by your post above.

Instead of the hassle of banning me, I will close my account and I won't reopen an account. But I will only do this if you state that you have not had private conversations with the topic of the warnings you have given me.

If you state that then I will apologise because I got this wrong and I will delete my account.

---------------------------------------

Warned for ignoring moderator instruction.

Big Bag of Chips · 23-05-2024 6:25pm

Warned for ignoring mod instruction. It should be at least 1 point or 2 but applying 1 more point warning will trigger a siteban. So I am giving you a chance.

I am giving you this one chance. Do not post on this thread again. Do not post anywhere else querying this warning. Do not reply to the PM you received with the warning.

If you get sitebanned and re-register, both accounts will be permanently sitebanned. If you close your account and open another and continue posting about this issue your warnings from this account will carry over and your new account will receive a temp siteban.

DialecticAspirations · 24-05-2024 8:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122171459#Comment_122171459

Thanks for looking into this and for the helpful response.

I'd suggest that the next time the FAQs/Site rules etc are being updated, the rule/guideline on backseat modding and not talking about ignoring someone are added (not anecdotes as it's thread specific).

They may seem obvious for veteran users/mods, but for some new users it is not obvious and would be helpful to have a written rule/guideline somewhere easily accessible on the site.

Cheers

Beasty · 24-05-2024 2:41pm

Every forum has a charter. Some of them are very detailed, such as Soccer where the rules have been built up on user feedback over the life of this site.

The site ToUs advise posters to Report any material they find objectionable. They instruct users not to treat other users with disrespect.

On the specifics of backseat moderation, it really should be common sense that a site that uses moderators expects those moderators, and not regular users, to moderate. And if someone does do it once and get pulled up on it then they will be perfectly well aware of this if they do so again.

ottolwinner · 20-07-2024 8:47am

not sure where to ask this question but if a profile says it’s sitebanned how long does that ban last? Or is there any set timeline for it? Thank you.

Beasty · 21-07-2024 10:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122403535#Comment_122403535

This is only disclosed to Mods, CMods and Admins

Some bans are permanent, and others are for a time based on a totting up process. When a warning is issued it can carry 0, 1 or 2 warning points. 1 point stays "active" for 1 week, 2 points for 2 weeks. 5 active points result in a siteban. The way it works in detail is best illustrated by an example

User A picks up 2 points on 1 January. They expire 2 weeks later on 15 January

On 10 January they pick up a further 2 points. That means they have 4 active points, but they remain active until 29 January (2 weeks after the initial 2 "expire")

No further points are picked up during January, and all the active points expire on 29 January

On 1 February they pick up another 2 points, expiring on 15 February. On 10 January they pick up another point, making 3 points, expiring on 22 February. On 16 February they pick up another 2 points, taking the total to 5, expiring 2 weeks after 22 February, ie on 8 March (not a leap year!). An automatic siteban then kicks in for 5 active points, and that expires on 8 February when the warning points are re-set to 0

Bet you wish you had never asked now…

ottolwinner · 21-07-2024 10:32pm

thanks and thanks for going to the trouble of answering. I will read it a few times to justify your effort in replying. Was always curious and now I know. Thanks Beasty

ottolwinner · 21-07-2024 10:35pm

thanks Beasty on reading it a second time it makes more sense. Do they know if they have picked up points? Like would I know if I had points or would a Mod C Mod or admin have to inform me?

Beasty · 22-07-2024 8:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122410087#Comment_122410087

You will see it on your own profile page. Both the number of points and expiry date.

That info is only visible to the account holder, Mods, CMods and Admins.

Whenever a warning is issued a PM will be sent to the user setting out the number of points being applied

Hotblack Desiato · 23-07-2024 10:13am

I got (mistakenly) banned a while back and it was not possible to log in at all, never mind access PMs to try to find out what happened. Surely it should be possible for someone in that situation to at least see their profile, access PMs, and open a dispute resolution thread.

Big Bag of Chips · 23-07-2024 4:27pm

That is not something that is available on the Vanilla platform, unfortunately. Some users have gotten around this by registering a new account to start a dispute to highlight the error.

There will be occasional errors. But, in general, if a poster is banned it is after an accumulation of 5 points, so there is plenty opportunity for the poster to dispute the warnings or change their style of posting to avoid a 5 point ban.

Question on "Unwritten Rules"

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